[CounselorK]

Hello, and thanks all for reading and for your help in advance!
I rented 1 bedroom in Queens, NY for 560 on Oct. 1 It's part of a 3 bedroom 2nd floor place. My roommate S who'd lived there for several years was in charge of utilities. I would have to give her my 560 every month and she would give it to the landlady.

The landlady is this Chinese businesslady who doesn't turn on the gas, and leaves her house in disrepair. But as a newly graduated student looking for a job, her no-lease, just 1 month deposit rule seemed great.

S would not give me a receipt for the 560, and I would have to ask her several times. She would always say OK, and then not give me the receipt. (I guess I should've not given her the money until she wrote me a receipt) I would have to stand over her in order to make sure she would write it. Sometimes I wouldn't get a receipt for more than 5 months because she would not be home at the time I was, and she didn't answer her phone or return my messages.
S never once gave me the utility bills, although I asked for them several times a month. Sometimes more than 3 times a week.

Then after 9-10 months, she gives me a vague utility bill. I asked for more detailed accounts. I found she had overcharged me 75 on gas, but other than that, I had a hard time deciphering the bills. I told her that I didn't have that lump sum right now, and I would try to pay her in 10 month increments, but that she should realize that she should give me my monthly rent receipts, and also, that she should give me my utility bills on time every month. I gave her about 35 dollars and told her that I would not be responsible for any more payments unless she fulfilled her end of the verbal agreement.

She promptly disappeared after that, for about 5 months or more. Then she returned and I heard from the other roommate that S was moving to California. She did move, while I was away from home, and left a bill for the remainder of the months. Of course no monthly rent receipt, and no apology.

I also moved out the first week of November, because of the mice, the stopped up sink, and stopped up shower that had been this way since I'd moved in almost. (I personally blame the other 2 roommates for being slobs, but it's always easy to blame someone else)

I called the landlady and met with her, she asked for the keys back, and said she would find someone else, even though I told her that there were several people willing to pay me for the Nov. rent I had already paid, and for my deposit (the landlady set it up this way where you would have to find someone, and get your cash deposit from them, so she would always be guaranteed a tenant). She then refused to return my deposit, or even half of my nov. rent, which would have been 560 + 288 (because she'd raised my rent to 575). She said she was being generous and would return 200, only if I paid S back for the utilities.

I called S today and explained to her calmly why I felt like she was in the wrong, and said I felt like she walked all over me, and expected me to meet her needs, but she wasn't responsible and broke her agreement. I didn't want to just screw her over though, so I told her the landlady would give her the 200 owed to me, and I would be fine with that. S says no, actually, the landlady has decided to keep the 200 now, and S is going to go to court, and not settle for 200. (which is roughly half or more of what she claims I owe her for utilities)

At this point, I thought maybe with the landlady, there is nothing in agreement, and yes, it would've been the decent thing to do for her to return the money to me, but I thought it was a losing battle, and I believe in Karma, so I bid her good day and gave a little speech, and left calmly. As for S, she is now going to go to a small claims court, and return to nyc from California, so she can get her utilities money back.

I guess for me, it isn't about money (although I barely made enough to afford the 600 or so a month rent) so much as principles, but maybe I'm not thinking straight. Am I responsible for those bills that she dumped on me after all this time, or no? I don't really want to go to small claims court, so far, I have lived a life free of any sort of criminal charges. But people are saying that I will win, and won't have to pay anything. Can anyone give me some advice and feedback on both the landlady and roommate situation and what I should do in the future to avoid such unpleasant situations? Thank you for reading.

[ScottGem]

You have no proof, no documentation. Trying to make a case here is going to be difficult. Chalk it up to life's experience and forget it.

[JudyKayTee]

Hello, and thanks all for reading and for your help in advance!
I rented 1 bedroom in Queens, NY for 560 on Oct. 1 It's part of a 3 bedroom 2nd floor place. My roommate S who'd lived there for several years was in charge of utilities. I would have to give her my 560 every month and she would give it to the landlady.

The landlady is this Chinese businesslady who doesn't turn on the gas, and leaves her house in disrepair. But as a newly graduated student looking for a job, her no-lease, just 1 month deposit rule seemed great.

S would not give me a receipt for the 560, and I would have to ask her several times. She would always say ok, and then not give me the receipt. (I guess I should've not given her the money until she wrote me a receipt) I would have to stand over her in order to make sure she would write it. Sometimes I wouldn't get a receipt for more than 5 months because she would not be home at the time I was, and she didn't answer her phone or return my messages.
S never once gave me the utility bills, although I asked for them several times a month. Sometimes more than 3 times a week.

Then after 9-10 months, she gives me a vague utility bill. I asked for more detailed accounts. I found she had overcharged me 75 on gas, but other than that, I had a hard time deciphering the bills. I told her that I didn't have that lump sum right now, and I would try to pay her in 10 month increments, but that she should realize that she should give me my monthly rent receipts, and also, that she should give me my utility bills on time every month. I gave her about 35 dollars and told her that I would not be responsible for any more payments unless she fulfilled her end of the verbal agreement.

She promptly disappeared after that, for about 5 months or more. Then she returned and I heard from the other roommate that S was moving to California. She did move, while I was away from home, and left a bill for the remainder of the months. Of course no monthly rent receipt, and no apology.

I also moved out the first week of November, because of the mice, the stopped up sink, and stopped up shower that had been this way since I'd moved in almost. (I personally blame the other 2 roommates for being slobs, but it's always easy to blame someone else)

I called the landlady and met with her, she asked for the keys back, and said she would find someone else, even though I told her that there were several people willing to pay me for the Nov. rent I had already paid, and for my deposit (the landlady set it up this way where you would have to find someone, and get your cash deposit from them, so she would always be guaranteed a tenant). She then refused to return my deposit, or even half of my nov. rent, which would have been 560 + 288 (because she'd raised my rent to 575). She said she was being generous and would return 200, only if I paid S back for the utilities.

I called S today and explained to her calmly why I felt like she was in the wrong, and said I felt like she walked all over me, and expected me to meet her needs, but she wasn't responsible and broke her agreement. I didn't want to just screw her over though, so I told her the landlady would give her the 200 owed to me, and I would be fine with that. S says no, actually, the landlady has decided to keep the 200 now, and S is going to go to court, and not settle for 200. (which is roughly half or more of what she claims I owe her for utilities)

At this point, I thought maybe with the landlady, there is nothing in agreement, and yes, it would've been the decent thing to do for her to return the money to me, but I thought it was a losing battle, and I believe in Karma, so I bid her good day and gave a little speech, and left calmly. As for S, she is now going to go to a small claims court, and return to nyc from california, so she can get her utilities money back.

I guess for me, it isn't about money (although I barely made enough to afford the 600 or so a month rent) so much as principles, but maybe I'm not thinking straight. Am I responsible for those bills that she dumped on me after all this time, or no? I don't really want to go to small claims court, so far, I have lived a life free of any sort of criminal charges. But people are saying that I will win, and won't have to pay anything. Can anyone give me some advice and feedback on both the landlady and roommate situation and what I should do in the future to avoid such unpleasant situations? Thank you for reading.

Can't help you much with this because you appear to have no documentation to support your position; for the future - get it in writing!

[ScottGem]

I also don't think S has much of a case either since there is also no documentation.

P.S. please don't use PMs (or e-mail) for followups. Just post a reply to the thread.

[CounselorK]

Sorry Scott, I couldn't figure out how to post a reply to your reply, so I just sent you a message.
Thanks again for your comments, my conscience feels a little better.
She does have one piece of writing in my hand, when I paid her in increments for the 10 month utility bill. It basically says something like $140.00 - $40.00 = $100.00
I will pay 35 each month. Or something. It was a note I left her with the 40. Other than that, there are lots of memos I left her, and notes, but of course they are in my handwriting, not hers, and I threw them in the trash.

So by 'nothing in writing' that means, something official? What makes something official and able to stand up in a court of law?

[ScottGem]

While verbal contracts can be binding they are harder to prove. If she has a document from you that says you were paying something towards a bill and that there was a balance, then that would be sufficient to show an agreement. But then she would have to prove you didn't pay the balance.

[CounselorK]

Well, I wouldn't want to lie, because I haven't paid for a part of the utility bills that she gave me. I would admit to the court that I haven't paid the balance, but I thought that given the circumstance (no bills or receipts for 10 months, and then another 5 months or so, broken verbal agreements, etc.) that would be acceptable. Or is it not?

Am I still responsible for the remainder of the bill even in this situation?

[ScottGem]

Its really hard to say since you have a convoluted set of circumstances.

The only thing is to tell your story to the judge and hope for the best.

[JudyKayTee]

Well, I wouldn't want to lie, because I haven't paid for a part of the utility bills that she gave me. I would admit to the court that I haven't paid the balance, but I thought that given the circumstance (no bills or receipts for 10 months, and then another 5 months or so, broken verbal agreements, etc.) that would be acceptable. Or is it not?

Am I still responsible for the remainder of the bill even in this situation?

You either live by the terms of your agreement or you don't, breaking the verbal contract for both sides - so, no, it's not acceptable in terms of arguing you had a verbal contract which she broke. Perhaps she did but you did also so there is no contract.

[CounselorK]

Hi, thanks for responding, but it seems like I'm not making myself clear here.

***I didn't break the verbal agreement, she did, which is why I'm asking if I am still held responsible.****

By not paying in full, I am not breaking the verbal agreement, because as I already wrote in my other post, our agreement was that she would give me the utility bills and monthly rent receipts on time, every month. Then when she first broke that, I agree I would pay that lump sum, even though I was no obligated to, (but morally I felt it was so) if she promised she would not do that again (meaning, monthly, timely bills and receipts). But she did repeat her early behavior, thereby once again breaking the verbal agreement.

So in this case, by not paying, I am keeping in terms with our verbal agreement. Please correct me if I'm wrong.