[firmbeliever]

4 more soldiers accused of rape, murder in Iraq


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...tigation_x.htm

By Rick Jervis and Andrea Stone, USA TODAY
BAGHDAD — Four more soldiers were charged with rape and murder in connection with the slaying of a young Iraqi woman and her family in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, the U.S. military announced Sunday.

Another soldier was accused of failing to report the offenses but was not believed to be involved in the attack, a military statement said. The soldiers, who are from the 101st Airborne Division and whose names were not released, were charged Saturday.

In all, six soldiers have been implicated in the March 12 incident, the latest of several alleged crimes by U.S. servicemembers in Iraq. Ex-soldier Steven Green was charged with one count of rape and four counts of murder. He pleaded not guilty to killing the young woman, her parents and 5-year-old sister.

Please refer link for the rest of the article.
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This is just one case that is being looked into, what about all the other cases never reported during different wars? And what could anyone do to help avoid such incidents happening?

[Choux]

Soldiers are professional killers; Jihadists are amateur mass murderers.

Professional killers can't easily turn off their status, and there is always collateral damage to civilians during wars.

Jihadists are mass murderers who strike civilians because they are overly religious.

Time to get rid of monotheism and its ancient beliefs which are out of date today.

[firmbeliever]

Soldiers are professional killers; Jihadists are amateur mass murderers.

Professional killers can't easily turn off their status, and there is always collateral damage to civilians during wars.

Jihadists are mass murderers who strike civilians because they are overly religious.

Time to get rid of monotheism and its ancient beliefs which are out of date today.

I have a few facts for you...

I am a jihadist
In that I fight my anger everyday for the sake of Allah
I fight impatience now and then for the sake of Allah
I fight my baser desires of selfishness for the sake of Allah
I fight my inner self each day to be a better human being for the love of Allah

And yes I would call myself a person doing jihad of myself.

"collateral damage to civilians"?
Do you call the murder of a whole family in front of a little girl that?

Just because someone blows himself up in the name of a particular religion does not mean that the religion is deficient, it is the persons thinking that is deficient.

[Choux]

Yes. Professional killers almost always go too far.

Jihadists always go too far.

It is not easy to turn off the training and emotions of being a KILLER.

[Dark_crow]

It is not easy to turn off the training and emotions of being a KILLER.

Timothy McVeigh when ask why he detonated 7,000 pounds of explosives at a federal office building and killed 168 human beings answerer, that he was defending the Constitution of the United States: well, isn’t what the core of the oath taken by every U.S. military member is, including Lieutenant Calley at the massacre in My Lai. By the way, have you heard that the U.S. military is inducting avowed white supremacists again? :eek:

White supremacists enlisting in military, watchdog report says / Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad

[Skell]

Soldiers are professional killers; Jihadists are amateur mass murderers.

Professional killers can't easily turn off their status, and there is always collateral damage to civilians during wars.

That does not make it right? You don't seem to show much respect or care for innocent lives?

[speechlesstx]

Soldiers are professional killers; Jihadists are amateur mass murderers.

Professional killers can't easily turn off their status, and there is always collateral damage to civilians during wars.

If they can't "turn it off" they aren't very "professional."

Time to get rid of monotheism and its ancient beliefs which are out of date today.

I didn't realize this was a question of religion, I thought it was about an alleged gang of drunken criminals. You just can't seem to resist taking potshots at religion whether it's relevant to the discussion or not. That seems a bit "jihadist" to me.

[alkalineangel]

Don't let the actions of one group of people change your opinions of the whole group. I agree it is wrong what these people did, it is sad that they are our soldiers and we put or trust in them, but there are millions of other soldiers over there, genuinely trying to make things better for those people. There are rogue groups there taking innocent people off the streets, people sent there to help, and they are killing them in cold blood... (referring to recent strand of kidnappings of the christian group from South Korea) This is war, like it or not, people will be hurt, millions of women and children were raped or hurt in other wars as well... the key to this is does the good outweigh the bad. I don't like the idea of war, but I do like the idea of women being treated better in their own homes, children not being frightened anymore, families not living in fear of a man who could take away everything with one word. You hear about this type of thing in the news often, but what about these thing... do you ever hear about these?









When people are trained to go in and do things that ordinary people should never have to do, they deserve respect. I have great understanding for those who may "snap" under the pressure. Yes it does not make what happened right, but I can understand. These men and women are over there fighting a war against a virtually invisible enemy to keep us safe. To keep attacks on our soil from happening again. They weren't sent there... they volunteered, and they deserve to know that they are doing it for a good reason. Yes there are bad apples, there always will be, they are everywhere, we can't help it. But don't blame the other soldiers or the war for them. The media wants you to see the bad things... but look at the good things from time to time as well.

[excon]

what about all the other cases never reported during different wars? And what could anyone do to help avoid such incidents happening?

Hello firm:

You DO know that in the past, ALL the women were raped when a nation was conquered? I'm not talking about ancient history either. I'm talking about wars that were fought in my lifetime.

So, I think we've done pretty good bringing that total way waaaaay down. Can we avoid these things from EVER happening again? No, we can't.

excon

[firmbeliever]

dont let the actions of one group of people change your opinions of the whole group. I agree it is wrong what these people did, it is sad that they are our soldiers and we put or trust in them, but there are millions of other soldiers over there, genuinely trying to make things better for those people. There are rogue groups there taking innocent people off the streets, people sent there to help, and they are killing them in cold blood...(referring to recent strand of kidnappings of the christian group from South Korea) This is war, like it or not, people will be hurt, millions of women and children were raped or hurt in other wars as well...the key to this is does the good outweigh the bad. I dont like the idea of war, but I do like the idea of women being treated better in their own homes, children not being frightened anymore, families not living in fear of a man who could take away everything with one word. You hear about this type of thing in the news often, but what about these thing...do you ever hear about these??

when people are trained to go in and do things that ordinary people should never have to do, they deserve respect. I have great understanding for those who may "snap" under the pressure. Yes it does not make what happened right, but I can understand. These men and women are over there fighting a war against a virtually invisible enemy to keep us safe. To keep attacks on our soil from happening again. They weren't sent there...they volunteered, and they deserve to know that they are doing it for a good reason. Yes there are bad apples, there always will be, they are everywhere, we can't help it. But dont blame the other soldiers or the war for them. the media wants you to see the bad things...but look at the good things from time to time as well.

I agree with you AlkalineAngel in that there are bad apples in any place or any time.
Also agree with the fact that certain things are more highlighted than the rest of the news (like you hear about Paris Hilton being in jail on the International headlines (not just entertainment news either) when children around the world Darfur,Pakistan,Bangladesh etc are starving to death, or dying because of diseases where they have no proper medical treatment).
I also agree that by the end of any war, there will be casualties from either side, but I do feel helpless as a mother and a woman knowing that around the world someone like me is suffering such ordeals.
I also believe in my heart that the ones who do not get punished in this world will be dealt justly after their deaths and the people who suffered in this world will have their due too.
Also believe when I hear children and adults dying around the world I know that for many of the poor oppressed people it is the end of their hardship/sadness in this lifetime!

[alkalineangel]

I agree with you AlkalineAngel in that there are bad apples in any place or any time.
Also agree with the fact that certain things are more highlighted than the rest of the news (like you hear about Paris Hilton being in jail on the International headlines (not just entertainment news either) when children around the world Darfur,Pakistan,Bangladesh etc are starving to death, or dying because of diseases where they have no proper medical treatment).
I also agree that by the end of any war, there will be casualties from either side, but I do feel helpless as a mother and a woman knowing that around the world someone like me is suffering such ordeals.
I also believe in my heart that the ones who do not get punished in this world will be dealt justly after their deaths and the people who suffered in this world will have their due too.
Also believe when I hear children and adults dying around the world I know that for many of the poor oppressed people it is the end of their hardship/sadness in this lifetime!

It is hard to deal with hearing all of this. I just try to offer my support in whatever small way I can, and pray for the families of all those affected. :)

[ETWolverine]

Chou is right to a degree: the job of a soldier is to be as violent as possible, and to kill people and break things. From a biological perspective, the chemical endorphins that affect the brain when in combat are very similar to the ones that affect the brain during sex.

That is why it is not uncommon for combat soldiers to be extremely both horney and rowdy while on R&R, and "partake of the comforts of the local women" when off duty. It is also the reason that there is an old soldiers' saying that a man who won't screw can't fight. If a man can't accept the endorphine rush of sex, then he probably can't handle the endorphine rush of combat either. Of course, this is not universal, but rather a very general rule. It also explains the "rape, pillage and plunder" mentality of prior generations' soldiers and warriors, who lacked the discpline to keep the atrocities out of it.

That said, there are a few soldiers who, despite the iron discipline instilled in them by the US military, end up committing atrocities against civilians. The fact that the US military and other First World militaries have this level of discipline keeps the number of incidents to a minimum, and our military at least makes the attempt to punish those who violate this discipline. But nothing will ever completely stop it. Nothing CAN completely stop it. It's a biological process, and nothing can completely eliminate biology from the equation, and some people will always be more susceptible to biological drives than to outside discipline.

In Third World militaries and among Jihadists, there is no such discipline, and the result is widespread atrocities.

Where I disagree with Chou is with regard to his claim that professional soldiers "almost always" end up committing such atrocities. I think that the numbers prove that to be untrue. Yes, there are a small number of such incidents that take place in any war. But in the US military, they are neither the norm, nor are they tolerated by the upper echelons. They are the exception, not the rule.

Elliot

[Choux]

Elliot, I was unclear, I DID mean that in any given war there is almost always reports of atrocities against civilians.

Since the occupation of Iraq, the Jihadists homocide bombers and assorted guerrilla "warrior" groups have reigned down a hundred times more violence and brutality upon the Iraqi people than American soldiers, either trying to maintain the peace or out on patrol, or two cases of committing atrocities.

[Choux]

Sorry, should be homicide!!