[Dark_crow]

I think so, what do you believe?

I'll throw in another, not as certain, conclusion: One other fact, America is leading in this evolution and the George Bush doctrine of 'Revolutionary Democracy' is an example.

[CaptainRich]

The geo-political face of this planet is constantly changing. Bush's policy may have an incredible effect but some of the changes are bound to come about regardless. If only to a smaller degree.

[NeedKarma]

I'm still on the fence about the worldwide threat of the islamic radicals. Part of me wants to believe that "killing all the infidels" can't really be a widespread Islam policy but I fear that it's going to continue. :(

[Dark_crow]

I'm still on the fence about the worldwide threat of the islamic radicals. Part of me wants to believe that "killing all the infidels" can't really be a widespread Islam policy but I fear that it's going to continue. :(

Who can predict with certainty, however, given that in approximately the last 20 years of the 20th century Democratic government went from 40 democracies in the world to 120 democracies in the world. That is the greatest advance of freedom in the 2,500 year story of democracy.
America made military commitments in Europe and Asia thereby protecting free nations from aggression -as well as creating the conditions in which new democracies could flourish.

Today, in spite of America’s commitment to democracy, many nations of the Middle East have yet to change. Many question whether the people are ‘ready’, and others believe that democracy and the traditions of Islam are incompatible with representative government.

In Iraq, the Coalition Provisional Authority and the Iraqi Governing Council are also working together to build a democracy; and there, Americas are sacrificing for the peace of Iraq and for the security of free nations.
So, yes I am optimist that soon, the Middle East will be democratic.

[ETWolverine]

I don't know. I would like to think that the human race is becoming more advanced in terms of ethics, morality, etc. but current evidence at hand seems to argue against it.

Here's what I see:

I see a South American communist dictator trying to eliminate the freest, fairest and most successful country in the world in the name of "fairness".

I see a groups of Middle Eastern dictators trying to eliminate the worlds most religiously free nations in the name of religion. And I see terrorists trying to do the same.

I see Communist countries in Asia building up weapons of mass destruction to eliminate the last nuclear world power so that they can be the last nuclear powers in the world.

I see daily protests against the US government over a war to prevent this country being taken over by people who would eliminate all possibility of protest.

I see liberalism that doesn't liberate anything, progressivism that isn't making any progress, Democrats who don't believe in democracy, conservatives who have stopped acting conservative, and a Grand Old Party that is anything but grand.

Are we making progress as a people or in our governments? I don't know. You tell me. I have my doubts, though.

Elliot

[Dark_crow]

I don't know. I would like to think that the human race is becoming more advanced in terms of ethics, morality, etc., but current evidence at hand seems to argue against it.

Here's what I see:

I see a South American communist dictator trying to eliminate the freest, fairest and most successful country in the world in the name of "fairness".

I see a groups of Middle Eastern dictators trying to eliminate the worlds most religiously free nations in the name of religion. And I see terrorists trying to do the same.

I see Communist countries in Asia building up weapons of mass destruction to eliminate the last nuclear world power so that they can be the last nuclear powers in the world.

I see daily protests against the US government over a war to prevent this country being taken over by people who would eliminate all possibility of protest.

I see liberalism that doesn't liberate anything, progressivism that isn't making any progress, Democrats who don't believe in democracy, conservatives who have stopped acting conservative, and a Grand Old Party that is anything but grand.

Are we making progress as a people or in our governments? I don't know. You tell me. I have my doubts, though.

Elliot

I see cruelty as entertainment in sixteenth-century Paris, –Cat Burning, burning in which a cat was hoisted in a sling on a stage and slowly lowered into a fire while everyone laughed and enjoyed the show.

I see a time when slavery was considered a labor-saving device,

I see a time when conquest was the mission statement of government.

I see a time when genocide was a means of acquiring real estate.

I see a time when torture and mutilation was routine for misdemeanors and differences of opinion

I see a time when pogroms were an outlet for frustration.


I see in the Bible violence in early civilizations-- This supposed source of moral values contains many celebrations of genocide, in which the Hebrew, prompted by God, slaughter every last resident of an invaded city.

The Bible also prescribes death by stoning as the penalty for a long List of nonviolent infractions, including idolatry, blasphemy, homosexuality, adultery, disrespecting one's parents, and picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The Hebrew, of course, was no more murderous than other tribes; one also finds frequent boasts of torture and genocide in the early histories of the Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and Chinese.

But today, they are rare to nonexistent in the West and far less common everywhere than they used to be.
Today if the occur they are concealed and widely condemned when they are brought to light.

So I see the present, back dropped against history while you see in present time.

[ETWolverine]

DC,

I agree with almost all of the categorizations in your post regarding human history. My question is are we appreciably better today as a race? I don't know. I see religiously sanctioned rape in Iraq, ethnic cleansing in Darfur and Bosnia, mass torture in Saddam's Iraq, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, targeting of civilians by terrorists, rampant crimes against humanity in every third world hole, etc. So have we come all that far from your vision of history? The only thing that I see is that we have better toys of torture and murder today than they had then. Does that make for advancement of the human race? I don't know.

Elliot

[Dark_crow]

DC,

I agree with almost all of the categorizations in your post regarding human history. My question is are we appreciably better today as a race? I don't know. I see religiously sanctioned rape in Iraq, ethnic cleansing in Darfur and Bosnia, mass torture in Saddam's Iraq, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, targetting of civilians by terrorists, rampant crimes against humanity in every third world hole, etc. So have we come all that far from your vision of history? The only thing that I see is that we have better toys of torture and murder today than they had then. Does that make for advancement of the human race? I don't know.

Elliot

Elliot, the answer to your question, “…are we appreciably better today…”, is in your post: “…rampant crimes against humanity in every third world hole…”, “Does that make for advancement of the human race? Yes, because once they were the norm every place on earth. Afghanistan yesterday and Iraq today are just the beginning in the list of examples you give.

[Skell]

Elliot, the answer to your question, “…are we appreciably better today…”, is in your post: “…rampant crimes against humanity in every third world hole…”, “Does that make for advancement of the human race? Yes, because once they were the norm every place on earth. Afghanistan yesterday and Iraq today are just the beginning in the list of examples you give.

So perhaps the title of your thread should have read "MY world is continually evolving into....." :D

[excon]

The world is continually evolving to be a better place to live, as is government.

Hello DC:

I think the world is doing fine, but we better keep our eyes on the government.

excon

[ETWolverine]

DC,

Please keep in mind that third world holes are the norm. First world countries are the exception. There are more people living in third world hovels than there are in the first world. I think the situation that I have3 described is the norm and the USA, the UK, France, Canada, Australia, etc. are the exception to the rule. Certainly the first world has seen improvement and continues to do so. But your original post regarded the world as a whole... and as a whole, the world is still living in the Dark Ages, despite improvements in technology.

Elliot

[tomder55]

Still I think there is room for optimism and for DC's conclusion. He cites the rise in democracy .In 1970, there were 44 democratic countries. In 1980, there were 56. In 1991, following the amazing, mostly-peaceful collapse of the Soviet empire, that number jumped to 91. In 2007 there were 123 electoral democracies.

Even in the Muslim Middle East, democracy is an idea that is openly competing with the jihadists as successors to the old sheik Kingdoms and brutal dictator regimes. Majorities in nearly all 17 Muslim countries polled by the 'Pew Global Attitudes Project' were receptive to democracy. Introduction and Summary: Views of a Changing World 2003

Economically there is room for optimism also .In the last 30 years, millions of people have lifted themselves out of poverty in China and India alone and as more of the world embraces capitalism I expect those numbers to increase even more.

Terrorism is a scourge but does it compare to 1963 ? My father who was hardly an alarmist rebuilt our basement into a shelter and stocked it with survival gear . I guess it did not help that we knew that Bethpage ,NY would be a prime target . I think there is a possibility of course that we could return to the days of a great power standoff in the future ,but as the world continues to embrace freedom ,liberty ,and justice the chances will become more remote I hope.

[Dark_crow]

DC,

Please keep in mind that third world holes are the norm. First world countries are the exception. There are more people living in third world hovels than there are in the first world. I think the situation that I have3 described is the norm and the USA, the UK, France, Canada, Australia, etc. are the exception to the rule. Certainly the first world has seen improvement and continues to do so. But your original post regarded the world as a whole... and as a whole, the world is still living in the Dark Ages, despite improvements in technology.

Elliot

Elliot, I think your conclusion is based on a false premise… comparing world progress based on a comparison between the best and the worst a one moment in history. Just as in economics I think we need to look at the average, in this case being the middle class.

Here is an interesting article: `A one-billion middle-class deluge from India, China by 2020'

The Hindu Business Line : `A one-billion middle-class deluge from India, China by 2020'

[Choux]

Up until the 1950-60, that may have been true;however, over the last 30 years or so, standard of living in first world countries has become static and is beginning to decline for middle class individuals.

Problems such as massive overpopulation along with fewer middle class jobs for Americans have led to the conclusion that people cannot hope to see their income rise past their parents income.

We see in America the fight of the rich against the average folks with the hoped result being cornering as much wealth as possible before the rich are hopelessly outvoted.

One happy thougt about America is the immigrants from Asia and Europe and Hispanic countries who are changing America for the better by bringing their energy and hope and desire for freedom and the ideals of the American dream. I don't think that much can be said for western Europe, but not sure.


Choux

There are no happy endings.

[Mario3]

You should watch this movie. The beginning is a little boring but I swear it will make you never think the same way again and it will open your eyes. Just keep watching because it gets really good. Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 it's Zeitgeist the movie and its all free online because the word is trying to be spread before the worst comes

[Mario3]

The poverty level of the world has actually gone on a downward spiral since america has introduced its plans to get to democracy around the world. Its all business plans if you go and see what they are doing. All the plans in africa that the americans put in say that money have to be taken out of the school system and out of healthcare etc... and everyone knows that if you take money out of those two systems your country is going to go haywire

[ETWolverine]

Up until the 1950-60, that may have been true;however, over the last 30 years or so, standard of living in first world countries has become static and is beginning to decline for middle class individuals.

Can you furnish any proof of that Chou? Because the demographic information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the "gap" between the poor and the rich in America is declining. They show that while the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting richer too, and at a faster rate than the rich.

Problems such as massive overpopulation along with fewer middle class jobs for Americans have led to the conclusion that people cannot hope to see their income rise past their parents income.

Proof please? I don't see any evidence of overpopulation, and I live and work in one of the most densely populated areas of the country. And I see average salaries rising regularly.

According to the BLS, average hourly salaries nationwide have increased sreadily over the past 10 years as follows:

Year Jan---Feb---Mar---Apr---May---Jun---Jul----Aug---Sep---Oct---Nov---Dec
1997 12.29 12.32 12.37 12.38 12.43 12.47 12.50 12.57 12.60 12.66 12.72 12.75
1998 12.78 12.84 12.88 12.92 12.96 12.99 13.01 13.09 13.11 13.14 13.18 13.21
1999 13.27 13.29 13.34 13.38 13.43 13.47 13.52 13.55 13.61 13.64 13.66 13.70
2000 13.75 13.80 13.85 13.91 13.94 13.98 14.03 14.07 14.13 14.19 14.23 14.28
2001 14.30 14.37 14.42 14.46 14.50 14.55 14.56 14.60 14.64 14.66 14.72 14.75
2002 14.76 14.78 14.82 14.84 14.88 14.94 14.98 15.02 15.07 15.12 15.15 15.21
2003 15.21 15.29 15.29 15.28 15.34 15.37 15.41 15.43 15.42 15.43 15.48 15.48
2004 15.50 15.54 15.57 15.60 15.65 15.67 15.72 15.75 15.79 15.81 15.85 15.88
2005 15.91 15.93 15.98 16.02 16.06 16.08 16.16 16.18 16.21 16.30 16.31 16.37
2006 16.43 16.49 16.55 16.63 16.66 16.73 16.79 16.84 16.88 16.94 16.99 17.07
2007 17.10 17.16 17.21 17.25 17.32(p) 17.38(p)
P : preliminary

We see in America the fight of the rich against the average folks with the hoped result being cornering as much wealth as possible before the rich are hopelessly outvoted.

Ah... yes. The great complaint about how all the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the rich. Well, what do you think made them rich in the first place. And who do you think will support the poor in the form of taxes if there are no rich?

One happy thougt about America is the immigrants from Asia and Europe and Hispanic countries who are changing America for the better by bringing their energy and hope and desire for freedom and the ideals of the American dream. I don't think that much can be said for western Europe, but not sure.

Well, that is certainly true of legal immigrants. But illegal immigrants cost us approximately $2.3 trillion (with a t) over a 10-year period in welfare, education costs, healthcare, etc. even if they manage to pay some taxes.

Choux

There are no happy endings.

There could be... it just takes enforcing the rule of law and letting the economy work freely without interference. It takes standing up against evil, even if it is unpopular to do so. And it takes being willing to choose right over wrong, good over evil, and rewarding right action instead of wrong action.

Elliot

[Mario3]

Lol wolverine you are more brainwashed that I thought. The stats that come out of america are different than almost every stat that comes out of every country. This year america was the one nation on earth who's FBI came out with a report saying "terrorism has decreased around the world" and "environment is getting cleaner". The world laughs at both these claims. Not one western nation showed the same results as the FBI did in these two areas. Also america has told the united nations to calculate poverty in a way in which whoever makes one dollar a day around the world is not to be considered poor. That's hilarious isn't it. Don't believe what you say when you see that millions of americans have no healthcare. Also the average salary has gone up but that is zero indicator of whether the gap between the rich and poor is going away because prices of EVERYTHING HAVE GONE UP. Every person in an economics faculty can tell you this. I can't believe you couldn't figure that one on your own and tried to sell propagnada here. Go back to school

[Mario3]

Here is another bit of information. Immigrants and illegal immigrants are causing less money to be sucked out of the system than true blue americans. Over 90 percent of the people who get their checks for doing nothing and get aid from the government are third generation white americans. This information was released by the Bush administartion.

[Dark_crow]

Please post your source.