[honeymustard]

Do men feel intimidated or turned-off by women who appear to be self-sufficient and independent? I've always thought that men do not like clingy, needy women...

Maybe I should provide some background information...

I accidentally clicked on "Save" before I was done typing! Oops!

Please see below for the rest of the post! Thanks!!

[honeymustard]

Here is the rest of the post:

I met this guy for the very first time at a friend's housewarming / Christmas party last December of 2007. We hit it off right away, but I was just trying to forget some other guy at the time, so I wasn't sure if I was ready for this guy. So partway through the evening, I kind of pulled back from him (I sensed that he looked sad out of the corner of my eye) and realized that I actually kind of missed his company, so we ended up spending the rest of the evening sitting next to each other and played Wii games together. Several days later, while reviewing the pictures that the host and hostess took that evening, they captured a picture of him looking very sad when I was pulling back from him, confirming that my feelings were right.

4 or 5 months later, sometime in late March or early April of 2008, the host and hostess started organizing regular badminton nights, and I saw him for the first time after December 2007. I was very nervous on the inside but tried to play it cool on the outside, hoping that he would approach me, but he didn't. Then we crossed paths and he mumbled something to me that I wasn't able to make out over the background noise.

The second time we played badminton, I decided to be more proactive. I tried to include him in conversations whenever we sat out. At first, he appeared reluctant, then eventually he started to loosen up and appeared surprised as I started to reveal that I actually remembered a lot of stuff about him from talking to him at the Christmas party. After that, he appeared to be avoiding me on the courts, but we would end up sitting together at dinner time every time after we finish playing and joke around with each other.

After playing a game of badminton, it is customary for players to shake hands to congratulate everybody on a good game. 2 weeks ago, he just held onto my hand longer than I expected (I was expecting a really quick handshake, almost a Hi-five sort of thing) and just took me by surprise. During dinner that night, he brought up that he wanted to go hiking the next day and asked if the host and hostess would like to go with him. They couldn't go because they were busy that weekend. So I spoke up and said I'd like to go. We had to compromise on a time because he wanted to get there really early and I wanted to sleep in. I wasn't trying to play hard to get, but I didn't want him to think that I'm easy or to give him the impression that I would do anything for him just to please him. We decided to go at 10 am. He said he'd call me to see if I was still sleeping. Although I assumed he meant that he'll call me in the morning to see if I'm ready to go and possibly swing by to pick me up, I played dumb and pretended that I thought he was just teasing me about what time we're meeting. I guess I was just protecting my heart and not letting him think that I might be falling for him so easily.

The next morning, I was at the bottom of the mountain at 10 am when he called me and realized that I was already there and he was still in bed, so he had to rush. After the hike, I was shivering from the cold when we were on the gondola heading back down the mountain and he moved in really close to me to shield me from the wind. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy to feel his body so close to mine, but I wasn't sure how to react to that. We had a late lunch, and we talked and I still wasn't sure if I was ready for this guy. He's turning 31 and he's still into drinking, likes to sleep in, and didn't have a job (but he's studying). I keeping thinking to myself, what am I doing with this guy? But I have faith that there is a bright future ahead of him. I guess he picked up on these thoughts during our conversation, even though I tried really hard to keep them to myself. Then, he offered to pay, but I insisted on paying. If we were going to do this regularly, I didn't want him to think that I was smooching off him, plus he wasn't working. As we were saying goodbye, he gave me a hug for the very first time. I was prepared for a soft one, but he squeezed me so tight, I thought my ribs were going to break! All I know is that I missed him very, very much throughout the whole week and couldn't wait to see him again soon.

The next weekend, he called me and asked me if I wanted to go hiking again. I actually wasn't feeling too well, but said I'd go anyway because I didn't want to turn him down and miss out on a chance to see him. I decided to show him that I am going to let my guards down, so this time, I let him come pick me up and drive me. He told me that he's found a job and that he'd start working the next day. I'm not sure if I have anything to do with him looking for a job, probably not. (One thing I learned is never expect a woman can change a man, or expect a man to change for a woman... he must want the change for himself.) Nevertheless, I guess the damage was done. I didn't feel as much physical contact or physical attraction from him this time. Maybe it's just a phase that he was going through. I don't know... He even had road rage over something really trivial... a side of him I saw for the first time. Although I was slightly frightened by his temper, I pretended not to be. After going home that day, I felt a little disappointed that things didn't turn out to be as "romantic" as last time.

Sometimes I feel so confused by his actions, but I bet he feels the same way about me... if he feels anything for me at all, that is. But I have a tendency to over-analyze everything anyway. I just want to know... have I already ruined my chances with him? Is there anything I can do to fix it? Thank you very much for all your insights!

[JBeaucaire]

No, you haven't ruined anything. But you don't know much about him either, truly, you two are attracted strangers.

You do overanalyze. You'll need to watch that. But, on the other hand it CAN keep you grounded if you use it properly. If you just analyze a situation through and through until you get the rationalization you want, no, that's bad. But I don't see you're doing that.

Keep in mind you will be attracted to guys all over the place. It's natural and MEANS NOTHING. It's just happening to make sure you keep getting close to guys until one finally snags you. It's a survival instinct, nothing more.

But with this guy, once you got past the "ooo-ooo" butterflies attraction and spent some time with him, you weren't overly thrilled. That's common too. You are trying to find out if there's anything there worth pursuing, right?

IN the end, you're going to end up with ONE guy, that means all the other guys lose out. That one fact alone should make you be pretty stern about the ones you let stay close to you, risking being the "one", does that make sense?

Anyway, there's nothing here to fix, you two are just jostling and getting to know each other. Don't FORCE anything, if it's good with this guy you won't have to "over-analyze it into reality", it will just be.

After reading your story, even I already doubt it, but that's just me.

[honeymustard]

Thank you very much for your response JBeaucaire! =)

Just want to clarify something... when you said "even I already doubt it"... you mean that I haven't ruined anything yet, right? Sorry, I just want to be clear =P

[brkfstatiffs]

Do men feel intimidated or turned-off by women who appear to be self-sufficient and independent? I've always thought that men do not like clingy, needy women ...

Maybe I should provide some background information ...

I accidentally clicked on "Save" before I was done typing! Oops!

Please see below for the rest of the post! Thanks!!!

Hey there, honestly it doesn't seem like he's truly interested in you as far as a dating prospect, but then again it may just be too early to tell. You kind of invited yourself to go hiking, and then showed up at 10am without even hearing from him at first. I'm sure he enjoys your company, but it seems like it's just that. You have to go with your gut, do you feel a connection? Men are usually pretty good with letting a women know ig they feel the connection, or they will say stuff to let you know ask you out again etc. All in all, I think it's too early to tell. Let him be the one to contact you, he should call you not text you. If it's a couple days later, he is probably interested, if it's two weeks down the road it's probababy a casual thing. Go with the flow up front, but don't always be available when he wants to hang with you. And in the meantime, go out and meet other men. I always tell myself when the connection and chemistry is there, it just is and you know

[honeymustard]

Thanks brkfstatiffs for reminding me not to always be available when he wants to hang with me. I agree that I did invite myself to go hiking and showed up at 10 am without even hearing from him first. That probably weirded him out more than anything, but all sorts of thoughts were running through my head at the time like... does he like me? Do I really like him? I hope he doesn't think that I'm easy... I guess by inviting myself, I DID set myself up to appear like an easy catch.

Although I did invite myself, he was the one who initiated all those other actions, like holding onto my hand, moving in close to me when I was shivering, and giving me that hug... I don't know if these actions mean anything or if he just simply thinks of me as a friend. I guess I should just relax and go with the flow. If it happens, it happens. Over-analyzing everything would just make me act awkward around him and do weird things like what I did.

BTW, I just edited the following in my original post above:

Although I assumed he meant that he'll call me in the morning to see if I'm ready to go and possibly swing by to pick me up, I played dumb and pretended that I thought he was just teasing me about what time we're meeting. I guess I was just protecting my heart and not letting him think that I might be falling for him so easily.

[kp2171]

One thing I learned is never expect a woman can change a man, or expect a man to change for a woman ... he must want the change for himself

A fav saying concerning the mistakes men and women make in relationships...

That a man marries thinking the woman he married will never change, but she does... and the woman marries thinking the man she married will change, but he never does.

How can you "ruin" anything? He might be right for you or not... but seriously... "ruining" it? If its not a good fit, its not a good fit. That simple.

[kp2171]

Upon third read of your post... I think you need to step back a little... you seem a little too deep in much too soon.

He's a guy. We are idiots by design. His mishaps might be nothing more than "dumb dna"...

But you seem much too tense and worried about things here for me to just say "relax"... you can be charged, like him large... but really... you are still in the "are we or arent we" stage where you are getting to know whether you want to know more about each other.

Its OK you are attracted to him... but you also need some balance. A confident woman is one of the world greatest turn ons. At least in my opinion.

[honeymustard]

Thanks kp2171 for reminding me that being confident is an important quality to a man. I guess I should just stop thinking about him and just be myself and focus on myself because obviously, I'm starting to over-analyze everything.

[kp2171]

Well part of it is how much do you want to be chased? How willing are you to be the initiator? The one who drives the relationship...

For some, they'd go mad having to push the issue. Some people want a mate who chases, takes initiative, and pursues.

Some people are fine doing the chasing.

Personally... I like some "quid pro quo"... give and take. I've always been attracted to and chased confident women whod put me to the wall in a heartbeat. But that's just me.

Think about what you need and want... and then think about what he is doing. There's no harm in being bold and forward... one of the biggest loves I ever had was a girl I liked but wasn't interested in until she pushed the issue... her pursuit simply engaged me...

But I can't speak for him.. only to you. If you need more effort on his side, back off a little. See if he pursues. If he doesn't, then maybe he doesn't want it badly enough or he isn't a good match. It happens.

[talaniman]

I just want to know... have I already ruined my chances with him? Is there anything I can do to fix it? Thank you very much for all your insights!

Your thinking way too much. Relax, and enjoy getting to know each other, and have fun. Go slowly.

[honeymustard]

Thanks for your advices kp2171 and talaniman!

[honeymustard]

I guess my question would be... how do I encourage him to show more interest in me or how do I show more interest in him without appearing desperate? I don't feel too comfortable being the initiator... I guess I'm afraid of being rejected... Or should I just sit back and go with the flow since we're both still at the unsure stage?

[JBeaucaire]

You just get clever. Instead of overtly aiming affections at him, you just keep creating and inviting situations for you to be together. Fun things.

"Let's go hike the Yukon trail!"
"White water rafting sounds like fun, what do you think? Wanna give it a shot?"
"We're heading to the beach tomorrow, would love for you to come."
"So, when are you taking me to see that new monster movie?"
"I just got season 3 of Alias on DVD, let's have a marathon!"

Etc, etc, etc.

[NeedKarma]

Do men feel intimidated or turned-off by women who appear to be self-sufficient and independent?

I would not marry anything other than a self-sufficient, independent woman - and that's just what I did! :)

[kp2171]

Well, id give him an opening or two, as was just mentioned, and if he walks around it too much, well he's not as driven as you need him to be. Perhaps he likes the idea of the chase more than the actual chase.

Years ago my wife threw out an opening like that when I was dating another girl, she was dating another guy, but both relationships were on the downhill slide. Twice she invited me to join her... once with a group movie outing, and another time with drinks after work. Her interest didn't go unnoticed.

So... sure... all you can do is give a person a chance to do the right thing... if you offer and he doesn't respond in kind, you know the answer and are done with it.

I've never been especially hard on myself when I took a chance, opened myself up for rejection, and was denied. Its OK. Not a good fit. It happens all the time.

It's the swings I didn't take that bug me. The times I could have just stepped up and tried and hesitated. I very much prefer to know reality, even if I don't like the answer. I can deal with reality.

[honeymustard]

Thank you for all your responses... I feel a lot better now! I don't feel as lost now. =)