[talaniman]

Many of the writings that did not agree with the main writings of the known Apostles were not included of course,

Censorship!

[Moparbyfar]

Who has ever done that? Most people don't need scripture to justify their actions.

Unless of course you are a christian, then you base all your actions on the bible.

[Moparbyfar]

None of these things have gotten worse. Populations have grown, but all of these things have been a problem from the beginning.

The Worldwide Institute stated that "3 times as many people fell victim to war in the 20th century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899.
More than 100 million people, and rising, have lost their lives as a result of wars just since 1914!
It doesn't matter how big our population is, don't you think this is a huge concern to mankind in general?
It has also been reported on our news channels recently that if humans carry on as they are environmentally speaking and increasing in numbers, within around 50 years the earth will not be able to sustain life any longer.
What then? Shouldn't we have started evolving into something better by now? After all it takes millions of years to become as clever as we are now! :rolleyes:

[Onan]

The Worldwide Institute stated that "3 times as many people fell victim to war in the 20th century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899.
More than 100 million people, and rising, have lost their lives as a result of wars just since 1914!
It doesn't matter how big our population is, don't you think this is a huge concern to mankind in general?

War is a horrible thing, my point was there have always been wars. There will always be wars. I guess what I'm trying to say is, how can they get worse, when it's a horrible thing already? Even if one man dies in a war it's a bad thing.

It has also been reported on our news channels recently that if humans carry on as they are environmentally speaking and increasing in numbers, within around 50 years the earth will not be able to sustain life any longer.

It's a bit longer than 50 years... lol

Humans probably won't survive, the dinosaurs didn't. The earth will still be here for whatever takes over when were gone. All it takes is the right astroid hit and were gone. It won't matter what religion we are, what kind of people we are, or where were from. I just hope I get answers to the questions I asked before that happens... lol

[Onan]

The early church called a meeting of all of the major church leaders who presented various letters and writings.

Things were handled during these concils by way of vote, yes even the divinity of christ was an issue voted on. I wouldn't feel very good about something like that.

We can compare those to writings found in the dead sea scrolls to know that there has not been change in these writings.

Actually we have found out about many changes because of the dead sea scrolls. I can't remember off hand what book it was, but I think it was Mark that had a chapter added, and we learned this because of an earlier copy found in the dead sea scrolls. That's just one example I don't have time to look through my notes to find more.

Many of the writings that did not agree with the main writings of the known Apostles were not included of course,

By the time these votes started there were no known Apostles. It was 300 to 400 years later. What was known was there was a lot of different beliefs from his birth to his divinity, life, teachings, etc, etc. Now being that it was the Romans taking care of this, they decided to take the stories that felt more like what they were used to, spruce them up a bit by making them sound more like their own beliefs,( which if you read anything about the Romans they come from a long history in believing in Demi Gods and what not) Presto change-o, you have a new religion to make everyone happy. I don't think a Jew had any part of what we read today as the NT. Why would they write about demi Gods when all of the Jewish writings that ended up as the OT did nothing but speak against this kind of thing? Why would a Jewish writer declare his own people Killed God? See what I'm saying here? The Romans believed in many Gods and demi gods, so doesn't it make more sense that they created this one as well?

[Fr_Chuck]

If Rome was in control of the meetings it would be a consideration, but the Bishop of Rome was just one of many equals at these meetings. In fact from the Orthodox teachings it was there Bishop actually over the meetings Remember during these times the Church of the East and West had not divided yet and Rome had not yet come to power as it would latter.

And of course why would they write it, the truth perhaps, Iknow it may sound like a sily idea to someone not wanting to accept, but often the truth is told when you are writing things,

[talaniman]

The history of man is one of conquer and convert. That's how the traditions are spread, and converts made. When you say bible you must be more specific, as there are a few versions, so which one are we talking about? I know, there is only one true bible, and that's the one true christians follow!

[talaniman]

And of course why would they write it, the truth perhaps, Iknow it may sound like a sily idea to someone not wanting to accept, but often the truth is told when you are writing things,

Good, what I have written I believe to be true, but that doesn't make those who disagree silly, does it? That would be a problem, as its up to us as individuals, what we accept or not, and that's the truth, as I believe it.

[Onan]

And of course why would they write it, the truth perhaps, Iknow it may sound like a sily idea to someone not wanting to accept, but often the truth is told when you are writing things,

So then there is a chance that one of the many earlier myths are true? They were written down.

[Moparbyfar]

War is a horrible thing, my point was there have always been wars. There will always be wars. I guess what I'm trying to say is, how can they get worse, when it's a horrible thing already?? Even if one man dies in a war it's a bad thing.



It's a bit longer than 50 years......lol

Humans probably won't survive, the dinosaurs didn't. The earth will still be here for whatever takes over when were gone. All it takes is the right astroid hit and were gone. It won't matter what religion we are, what kind of people we are, or where were from. I just hope I get answers to the questions I asked before that happens..........lol

My point is that you seem to miss the real point. Things are definitely worse than before as it was foretold by Jesus at Matt 24:7 "Nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom." This started in 1914 with Total War in that it was not just army against army but nation against nation - approx 93 per cent of the world was involved in that war.
There would also be an increasing of lawlessness (vs 12). Today's moral breakdown is so bad children are becoming desensitized to horror, violence, swearing, sex, all in the form of entertainment, mostly. Are you saying that you don't care what happens to your children or grandchildren because there's no hope anyway?
God gives us hope in the scriptures. (Mic 4:3,4; Psa 37:10; Psa 46:9; Rev 21:3,4 etc etc) The only pity is that you do not take these seriously because God is a good "housekeeper" and it won't take him much to clean this place of his up. Also, he will never let it be destroyed by anyone or anything. (Isa 45:18; Eccl 1:4)

As I recall it, the news bulletin I saw mentioned the year 2050 as the time when earth would no longer cope - whether that was a scare tactic or not, you be the judge but that is not too far away! Maybe a different date or timeframe is given depending which part of the world you're in lol!

Onan, you're not really looking for answers... ;)

[michealb]

If you think children are getting desensitized now imagine how desensitized they must have been when they had to kill their own food and every Sunday the whole family got dressed up to go to the public hangings. Public executions use to be a family friendly event. The kids would gather round and throw rocks at the prisoners as they were lead to their death. Good moral fun, right?
By every measurable quality, life is getting better for the majority of the human race. Sure more of us have died in the last 100 years in war than ever have before but there are more people alive today than have ever lived on earth.

[Galveston1]

First of all there were well more than 40 writers. We can't forget all the writers that added their own flavor to the rewrites and translations.

Also the Bible is hardly without contradictions.

If the Bible is without contradiction I ask one of the believers to tell me how Judas died??
Who killed Saul??
How many children did Michal the daughter of Saul have??
Who was Josiah's successor??
Does God ever tempt his children??
Has any man seen God??

Judas hanged himself, apparently over a precipice somewhere. Something broke and he fell. What's so hard to understand here?

Saul committed suicide. The Amalekite thought David would reward him if David thought that he had rendered David a service by dispatching king Saul. Wrong!!

Michal had 5 stepsons from her other husband, but none by David.

Josiah was succeeded by his son Jehoahaz, who only reigned 3 months, followed by another son, Eliakim. His name was changed to Jehoiakim. There was another Jehoahaz who was the 11th king of the ten tribes.

The word tempt is used many times in the same sense as to try. God does not tempt any man to do evil.

No man has seen God in His glory. Many have seen Him in human manifestation.

Hope this helps someone.

[Onan]

Hope this helps someone.

THANK YOU!!

Judas hanged himself, apparently over a precipice somewhere. Something broke and he fell. What's so hard to understand here?

Matthew pretty much says he hung himself, nowhere does it say something broke and he fell, where you got that is from the other story of his death in Acts that says

1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Matthew and Acts have two complete different stories about the death of Judas.

The word tempt is used many times in the same sense as to try. God does not tempt any man to do evil.

So tempting Abraham to sacrifice his son is not evil? Again we have a problem with the Bible saying two different things. God tempts, and he doesn't tempt.

No man has seen God in His glory. Many have seen Him in human manifestation.

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9, along with Ex. 33:23, Ex. 33:11 and Gen. 32:30 says different and it's not speaking of Jesus. Again the Bible saying two different things.

I didn't address 2 of them because we would argue forever over it.

The point I was trying to make, that really is kind of past us now, is the Bible is not without contradiction.

[rodandy12]

I don't think we've even begun to discuss the translation issues. Some of these problems are related to trying to get from ancient Hebrew to modern English. The difference in context is large as well and people frequently don't bother trying to get the real meaning.

For example, there is a passage in the New Testament that goes something like, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Most people who read that assume that since a camel can't pass through the eye of a sewing needle, rich folks are going south. The needle referred to in the passage isn't a sewing needle. Cities with walls back in biblical times had gates and they were pretty large. At night when the gates were closed, there needed to be access to the city. That access was through a small door built into the larger gate. The person sized door was called the eye of the needle. You could get a camel through it, but it wasn't easy.

What a great discovery! Through a little research, rich people don't automatically go to hell.

[eawoodall]

The miracle is when the red sea parted.
Just in time for the hebrews to flee the host of those trying to kill them.
Just in time did it close to kill those trying to kill them.

Actually it does. You need to learn more history.

People who do not know how to tell time, do not impress me.
If you studied the actual dynasties you would see that the timeline is wrong that many scholars presume, for example how can a ruler rule for 97 years-when they admit he died at 47? Many people died much younger then. Perhaps the 'scholars' who prepared your timeline counted months as years? As the people who thought there was a fountain of youth did.

Ptah-seeker-osiris is a description of a god who is the father-helper along side-son:
Creator of the universe and law giver-god of light-judge and resurrecter of the dead.
It is the way that it was understood who GOD is by the people who were not hebrew.
And it is another proof the bible is correct. The people who were not hebrew after they left while worshipping other gods may have made some type of incorrect worship, ancestor worship commonly called, instead of worshipping God.

Everyone knows the Red Sea exists, but as you so nicely pointed out it was not an act of God that parted the Red Sea as told in the Exodus story, but an act of nature. This does not in any way prove the story true, it just proves back when the story was written they too knew of the act of nature.

Yes as a matter of fact I do, and no where in their history do they mention the story of moses, and the great escape.

This is just fantasy, there is not much to support it because the times these guys lived were not even close to being the same. Imhotep lived during the third dynasty(2635-2595 BCE) while most theologians say Joseph lived around 1730 BCE. Looks to me like someone borrowed an egyptian story and tried to apply it to themselves. Thats just my theory though. I would like to mention though that Imhotep was deified and became the son of Ptah. He was thought of as a God by the egyptians. I think this should be more than enough to show they are two different people. Joseph was never considered a God and rightly so because the Bible tells us there is only one, right??

I never heard this.



Yep and even wrote of his own death and funeral. Thats some trick.



I don't even know what to say about this. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. It's amazing to me the lengths people will go to just to prove the Bible true. I think you will have to try harder than this. So far you have shown the Hebrews liked to borrow things from earlier legends for their own. This is not the only case of this either. As I have mentioned before a lot of those early stories in the Bible came from earlier stories and legends. History does not prove the Bible factual, and in most cases proves the exact opposite. Sure there is all kinds of proof of all the enemies the hebrews faced but for some reason we come up blank on the heroes. Explain that to me. Thats like saying Captain America was a real person because Hitler was a real person.

[eawoodall]

I see you choose to remain in ignorance.

Did you do even a Google search to find these proofs?

Do you want to know the truth?

No, it is obvious you are just wrong, you choose to be wrong.
You cannot be right until you are willing to see that there is evidence.
Until you will examine the proof, you are only hatemongering.

16 WHAT ?

1024 WHAT ?

So? What nonsensical conclusion is that? Based on what argument?

That is what you BELIEVE. But on what is that based, if you claim that to be factual?

WHERE ? WHEN ?

"must be" ... is THAT your objective supporting evidence ?

scientific proofs ... :D :D ROLFL :D :D I see that you have not even an inkling of what the term scientific proof means ...

:rolleyes:

[eawoodall]

No.

The bible is actual facts. Actual events. Proof of every event that you have heard about in the bible has been given. You don't believe in science, you don't believe in proof.
The bible is already proven, legally, morally, scientifically, philosophically, reasonably.
You don't think it is. But you are wrong! You don't control the legal system, nor the moral system, nor the scientific system, nor the philosophical system, not the system of reason.
You onan only decide how ignorant you are by what you refuse to accept.
As does the person who asked this question. It is not belief, for you know in your heart that you are wrong, and hatemongering, but you attitudinal change program fails. The words convict you. The truth always wins out. You only bring more people to truth by harming yourself against the chief cornerstone. You cannot win, only lose. Sad that you do not know.

Chuck,,

No one denies places and buildings existed. Even floods happened, heck they still do. The problem is,,,

Thats how story telling works. How many movies do you watch that takes place in actual cities and buildings?? Just because those places exist, does that make the story true??

You think that kind of story telling didn't happen back then??

Thats why, as I have explained, you find evidence of some things and not all. Thats why we have evidence of enemies but not the heroes. It's classic story telling, hell it's Forest Gump thousands and thousands of years earlier......lol

The OT is filled with stories for people thousands of years a go who obviously went through a lot of hard times. These stories were made to give people hope, and something to believe in during times they had nothing much to believe in. These stories were not made for people who know better, who can just get in a car and drive to a hospital when they are sick. We actually live past 35, we don't need tales of long life. We don't need to get on our knees and repent every time we hear thunder, because we know it's just a storm. If people live near a volcano and it erupts they know to get the heck out of there and start a new life somewhere else, they don't hide under a rock to die because it's the will of an angry God. The Bible is a collection of stories that deals with a certain culture.

Thats it, plain and simple.

[eawoodall]

No.

Modern litertature proves when and where the bible was written.

You need to get up to speed on what universities now know is fact and teach in college.

I quoted this earlier, don't know why you don't believe modern atheists professors?

Perhaps you are a little bit behind the times?

Retelling the same story, doesn't mean its true. No matter how many times you tell it. Some interesting things were talked about in ancient times, but the fact we still have doubts of people, and events in modern times, is truly telling. Even the fact that an entire belief system, was based on a martyr of his ancient times, after his death. Not knocking the religion, but it was done by man, and evolved by man. That's enough to take it with a grain of salt, but that's just me. As we discover more evidence of a time long ago, its obvious, that this cycle was repeated thru out the world, and not just in the middle east, as very real evidence of civilizations going back tens of thousands of years, all over the world, is a very real fact that cannot be swept under the rug, and has to be accounted for. I think its too early in mans world, to say with certainty whats a fact, and what isn't. Now believe what ever you want, thats personal, but to make it fact, because thats what you say, I don't think so. That's to much like repeating a lie, the more you say it, the more you believe it. The amazing thing, I find no facts in this whole thread, that proves or disproves anything the OP has asked. What's wrong with saying "I don't know, but I believe", that would at least be the truth.

[talaniman]

Personal attacks don't impress me, and neither do the credentials of those that repeat stories, and take them as fact, without proof.

[eawoodall]

Judas having a rope around his neck, that the rope was too long, fell to his death, where he bounced against the ground, spilling his insides out, cause of death. But he was wearing a rope connected to a tree. So technically he died because he was hanging himself

Self or others

If no twins or triplets or multiple births, then just one per time she was pregnant.
Unless she had a abortion, spontaneous or otherwise.

The one he choose

No God does not tempt. Not his job. Not in his nature.

And lived?

Provide more info, answer my questions.

First of all there were well more than 40 writers. We can't forget all the writers that added their own flavor to the rewrites and translations.

Also the Bible is hardly without contradictions.

If the Bible is without contradiction I ask one of the believers to tell me how Judas died??
Who killed Saul??
How many children did Michal the daughter of Saul have??
Who was Josiah's successor??
Does God ever tempt his children??
Has any man seen God??