Every time I get into a debate with a Christian about the Christian beliefs, the bible is the only source they ever use to back up what they say. I do not know many books that give facts for my arguments for each specific argument; but I do know that to say that the Bible is so factual you can make it the only source for your information is just wrong! Give hard evidence that the men who wrote the Bible did not just write what they believed or thought. We cannot prove that! Religion is made up to explain the unexplainable and to give hope that we do not just live to die. If you contradict that statement then tell me why is there so many different religions? Why is it that the thought of just dying and being no more bothers so many? I know I got off the subject of proving the Bible to be factual, but I have so many questions and I would like someone who knows real answers besides "Thats called Faith" to answer me.

Look up books and websites on science and the Bible

Science and the Bible

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Originally Posted by Oxman

Every time I get into a debate with a Christian about the Christian beliefs, the bible is the only source they ever use to back up what they say.

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Some Christians believe in a doctrine called the "Bible alone". They base all their beliefs on the Bible and do not consider any other source as valid.

Some Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, Coptics and some reformed Christians, accept authentic historical documents and all sources of proven evidence to confirm their beliefs.

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I do not know many books that give facts for my arguments for each specific argument; but I do know that to say that the Bible is so factual you can make it the only source for your information is just wrong!

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1. Actually, since the Bible is the Word of God, then rightly understood, it can be used to support any true argument.

2. But since many people do not believe in God, then in order to convince them that the Bible is true we must confirm its contents with facts gathered in another discipline.

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Give hard evidence that the men who wrote the Bible did not just write what they believed or thought.

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They did write what they believed and thought. Who said they didn't?

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We cannot prove that!

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No. But since most of them died for their beliefs, that is pretty convincing evidence that they did believe it was true.

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Religion is made up to explain the unexplainable and to give hope that we do not just live to die.

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Perhaps some religions are thus. But the Judeo Christian religions are based on the Revelation of God to our forefathers. This Revelation has been passed on by Tradition and Scripture through the Teaching of the Church throughout the generations.

You may not consider eyewitness testimony as credible, but it is routinely accepted in Courts of Law throughout the world.

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If you contradict that statement then tell me why is there so many different religions?

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There are many reasons. Haven't you ever met people who simply refuse to believe the truth no matter how plain it is? And there are simply people who haven't heard the truth. There are others who have heard it but haven't understood it. There are those who mislead people for personal gain. And there are many other reasons.

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Why is it that the thought of just dying and being no more bothers so many?

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It never bothered me. I was an atheist for approximately 15 years. But I no longer believe that to be true.

Why does it bother so many that we believe in life after death?

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I know I got off the subject of proving the Bible to be factual, but I have so many questions and I would like someone who knows real answers besides "Thats called Faith" to answer me.

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I hope that helps. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. I'm sure there are many Christians here who are ready and willing to answer.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by Oxman

Every time I get into a debate with a Christian about the Christian beliefs, the bible is the only source they ever use to back up what they say. I do not know many books that give facts for my arguments for each specific argument; but I do know that to say that the Bible is so factual you can make it the only source for your information is just wrong! Give hard evidence that the men who wrote the Bible did not just write what they believed or thought. We cannot prove that! Religion is made up to explain the unexplainable and to give hope that we do not just live to die. If you contradict that statement then tell me why is there so many different religions? Why is it that the thought of just dieing and being no more bothers so many? I know I got off the subject of proving the Bible to be factual, but I have so many questions and I would like someone who knows real answers besides "Thats called Faith" to answer me.

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It's not just based on faith to believe the bible as authentic, it is also fact. For example:

It is filled with prophesies, many of which have already been fulfilled. Isaiah 13:20 foretold of the great city Babylon being desolatede permanently. Today it is still just a pile of rubble remaining uninhabited, yet other cities of old are thriving.

It is scientifically accurate. For many centuries man thought the earth was flat and yet Isaiah 40:22 states "There is one who is dwelling above the circle of the earth."

True it was mere man who penned the bible, but the Author was God himself, making it possible for some 40 very different men over a time span of 16 centuries to make up the bible in a completely harmonious, united way.

And if you are thinking that such a book could not possibly be kept 'original' down to our day - then you are basically saying that God is not perfect because he isn't capable of preserving his Word.

BTW the reason many are so bothered about dying is because they have not been taught the truth of Gods wonderful purpose for us, which is certainly not to live and die.

Gen 1:28 "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and sudue it" In other words we were meant to be caretakers of this planet. No mention of death here, only when Adam and Eve were given boundaries and the consequences of breaking them was death ever mentioned.

But getting back to proving the bible as authentic... to date, no one has ever successfully challenged the historical accuracy of it. You are most welcome to try. But really the proof is right there in front of you. Unfortunately many don't take enough time to study it deeply enough to find its true benefits.

So Oxman, give me hard evidence that the heat of the sun at its core is 27,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

To answer you, it does not matter one penny what you believe or think, no amount of evidence would convince you, I doubt if God himself spoke to you from a donkey you would believe.

So why bother with trying to tell you about Gods love, about his power and about his forgiveness.

The bible is a book, written over many 1000's of years, protected, forgotten, despised and found and rejoiced over and over many times.
You can reject it, that is your right, You an accept it, from the history of the Church and its teachings, and the 1000's of things of evidence from the data on the flood which shows a great regional flood in the general area believed to be the known world at the time of Noah, to other evidence showing ruins in Egypt that show brick with no straw following the teachings of the bible. The evidence is there but those who wish to refuse to believe will always find reasons to.

I guess my issue or question is what is your motive in challenging it,
If you don't believe, why not leave it and go about your way without any worry,

Is you your heart longs to believe and you want some sign to allow you to accept Christ?

Hi there Ox -

I am Catholic and thought I was Christian ( I accept Jesus as my savior - and Love our Lord so much, as well as Jesus Christ)

We did not have bible study at all in school (11 years Catholic - 1 year public). However, our masses, the readings our from the bible and then, what is called a homily follows, which to be is one of the favorite parts of mass.

This is the point that normally, the priest, will tie in reading 1 ( usually Old Testament ) and reading 2 ( New testament ), explain what they meant, and connect it to something of today.

It's very simple the way they do it. Overall, the preach LOVE. Honest. I never was at a mass, where the damned anyone, I would have walked out. Trust me. And ask to see the Priest later.

With that said, I have heard sermons that did warn us that we need to mend our ways.

I have said this so many times and people are probably sick of me saying it, but I believe strongly, that those religions that practice and believe, and preach the love of God, are just roads that lead to Our Heavenly Father.

It's kind of like one diet works for one, doesn't for another. And the third won't even try because he or she knows they never will loose weight.

God Bless.

There is nothing to prove, God's love speaks for itself :). But if you mean is the bible real.

Oh I think so, I truly do.

But as I tell everyone, trust your heart. Knock (probably better if you called) on a rectory door, or a synagogue, or any church you feel comfortable in, and ask your questions.
God want's us to help each other through this, and recognizes how difficult it is. How do I know all of this? Oh, I have His number :). Just kiddin.

He's in my heart and has carried me through good and difficult times. Mostly, He blesses me everyday.

But if you remember when Jesus would sit and teach, it was done in a loving way.

[QUOTE=Fr_Chuck]To answer you, it does not matter one penny what you believe or think, no amount of evidence would convince you, I doubt if God himself spoke to you from a donkey you would believe.
[QUOTE]

I think you have this wrong though. If there was a way to prove god. I would believe. Just like if they catch the Lockness monster or bigfoot, I'd believe in them too. On the otherhand though I don't think you will ever not believe even if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that god had no effect on this universe you would still claim that god is there and answers your prayers and that is was a matter of faith that can't be disproven.

As for an eyewitness being a good source of information, that's completely wrong. How many time do people report sightings of aliens, big foot and the lochness monster? Even when used in a court of law they are not regarded as highly accurate. Very rarely is someone convicted on eyewitness testimony alone.

Dear oxman,
You have alots of question. If you want real answer visit HOME « Eliseo Soriano, ask bro eli soriano.

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Originally Posted by marvin_082500

Dear oxman,
You have alots of question. if you want real answer visit HOME « Eliseo Soriano, ask bro eli soriano.

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Honestly, he does not have a lot of questions, at least any where he wants an answer, He already believes he knows that the bible is "not true" and wishes to disprove it to those he can. He wants the bible proved, and for course first the bible is a collection of separate writings not one book, it was formed into a book by christians to keep sacred writtings together.

One can prove many things, from flood layers but one that does not WANT to believe never will, not until they decide to have faith, which will allow them to see.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Honestly, he does not have alot of questions, at least any where he wants an answer, He already beleives he knows that the bible is "not true" and wishes to disprove it to those he can. He wants the bible proved, and fo course first the bible is a collection of seperate writings not one book, it was formed into a book by christians to keep sacred writtings together.

One can prove many things, from flood layers but one that does not WANT to beleive never will, not untill they decide to have faith, which will allow them to see.

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He saith, He have a lots of question. In it takes a lot of time to prove the bible is true.

TO PROVE HOW AUTHENTIC THE BIBLE IS, I WILL GIVE ONE EXAMPLE. Once upon time people believed that the earth is flat. In 1969 when apollo 11 CAME TO THE OUTER space. It is the first time that man saw that the is not flat. Did you not many years before Jesus Christ Came to the in flesh, it is written in the bible that the eareth is not flat. "It is He that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth," Isa.40:22. Gallileo galili was excumunicate by his church because he bilieve that the earth is round but his church believe it is flat.

Umm the greeks measured the circumference of the earth long before the bible was even written and almost all sea faring cultures knew that the earth was round because they would see the masts of ships before they saw the hull of the ship. It was only the church that for some reason got the idea that the world was flat and made everyone believe it.

Earth Circumference Measurement by Posidonius

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Originally Posted by marvin_082500

TO PROVE HOW AUTHENTIC THE BIBLE IS, I WILL GIVE ONE EXAMPLE. once upon time people believed that the earth is flat. in 1969 when apollo 11 CAME TO THE OUTER space. it is the first time that man saw that the is not flat. did you not many years before Jesus Christ Came to the in flesh, it is written in the bible that the eareth is not flat. "It is He that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth," Isa.40:22. Gallileo galili was excumunicate by his church because he bilieve that the earth is round but his church believe it is flat.

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Besides that Christianity did everything in it´s power to prevent the scientific evidence of a spherical earth to be communicated freely, the fact that the earth was a sphere was wellknown long before it was introduced in anyone of the bible stories.
Nobody required apollo 11 or any other rocketry to see that the earth was a sphere. All that was required to see that was an open mind.
:rolleyes:

Read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and maybe life itself will make more sense to you. It really answers a lot of questions of life and may help you understand a few things from the Bible even though its not the based on one religion or even the Bible itself. It just makes sense.

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Originally Posted by grammy2x

... and maybe life itself will make more sense to you.

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What makes you think that anyone here has a problem with life not making any sense?
The question is if you can objectively prove that the sense life makes to you has more value than the sense someone else experiences? What is right, what is wrong? What is true, what is untrue? And WHY is that so?
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

What makes you think that anyone here has a problem with life not making any sense?
The question is if you can objectively prove that the sense life makes to you has more value than the sense someone else experiences? What is right, what is wrong? What is true, what is untrue? And WHY is that so?
:rolleyes:

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Sorry just trying to help.

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Originally Posted by grammy2x

Sorry just trying to help.

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Please understand that I am not attacking you at all.
.
For your information : I am a freethinking Secular Humanist.
I do not hate anyone.
I do not hate religion or religious people.
I never killed or physically hurt anyone.
I do not misuse children, women, or any other human being.
I do not harm animals.
I do not drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I do not do drugs.
I pay my taxes and my bills.
I love my Christian wife, my children, and my grandchildren.
I am a honest, open, non-aggressive, rather intelligent guy.
I have a 30 years experience in teaching children in the third world.
I am member of an international emergency assistance team.
I am an unpaid volunteer with mentally handicapped children, and volunteer in a hospice for terminal patients
There is nothing wrong with me.
So with what and why would you try to help me?
.
All I tried to do is show that Oxman's topic "How can we prove the Bible is factual" makes no sense, as there is no way anyone can prove the Bible is factual, simply because the entire Bible and the religion based on the Bible is based on BELIEF and nothing else.
:rolleyes:

Bravo, the first perfect human being ever! Pardon me for trying to answer and not being of any help, when obviously you don't need it, good for you. Good luck to you.

Grammy,
I believe he may have taken your "maybe life itself will make more sense to you" somewhat personally (apologies to Credendovidis if I got that wrong). Many who don't read the bible as a life guide have absolutely no problem living our lives or finding meaning in what we do. If you require the bible to have life make sense to you then that's OK but it's best not to assume that others are like that.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I should have thought it through more. I just thought the reading itself would help rather than asking others the way he did. He came across as a bully to me, and that may not have been the intention. It just seemed as though there wasn't an answer that anyone could give him that would help and that he was just challenging Christians to prove what we believe with our hearts without having to have scientific proof. You either believe or you don't. I think I'll stick to asking questions instead of answering them! Thanks for caring and may God Bless you!