[Wondergirl]

We know that this world is the result of the fall, doesn't mean we have to go with the degeneration that that engenders. God didn't create gays they are the result of the fall when woman decided she wanted to be equal with God

And yes, "we have to go with the degeneration that that engenders" -- babies born with cleft palates, missing limbs, Down's syndrome, cerebral palsy, autism; medical problems that occur as we age -- macular degeneration, chronic back and neck pain, cancer, heart problems, COPD; natural disasters that kill living things, and change the face of the earth. And yes, the binary was opened up to countless possibilites -- e.g., lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, questioning, asexual, enby -- humans whom God loves and cares about, and asks us to love and care about too.

[Wondergirl]

Well, which is it. Is God's plan perfect, or not perfect? It has to be one or the other.

As you said earlier, God is omniscient, so....

That's why I believe Genesis 3 is an allegory, a simple story that we have told through the millennia, a story that reveals a larger truth.

[paraclete]

So God's Word can be watered down into allegory?

[Wondergirl]

So God's Word can be watered down into allegory?

Not watered down. He used poems and parables and letters and history and genealogy and people's personal stories -- and allegories -- to tell us about His love for us.

[paraclete]

and so you don't believe it has deeper meaning and is more than allegory

[Wondergirl]

and so you don't believe it has deeper meaning and is more than allegory

It's an allegory with a very deep meaning plus lessons for all of us.

[paraclete]

I prefer to believe it is more than allegory

[Wondergirl]

I prefer to believe it is more than allegory

The meaning and lessons are the same either way.

[paraclete]

no if I treat it as allegory I am free to disregard it

[Wondergirl]

no if I treat it as allegory I am free to disregard it

You feel free to disregard proverbs and the many other lessons in the Bible? If it isn't literally true, if it didn't really happen, it's garbage?

[jlisenbe]

The meaning and lessons are the same either way.

That's not true. We all know that you can't possibly get the "meaning and lessons" you hold from a literal view of the Bible. That's why you fight against it so hard.

[Wondergirl]

That's not true. We all know that you can't possibly get the "meaning and lessons" you hold from a literal view of the Bible. That's why you fight against it so hard.

What meaning and lessons do you get from Noah's story that I don't get?

[paraclete]

You feel free to disregard proverbs and the many other lessons in the Bible? If it isn't literally true, if it didn't really happen, it's garbage?

That's my point, I believe it happened

[tomder55]

I kid you not .Today's black lister is the Looney Tunes cartoon character Pepe Le Pew .He got cancelled from the new 'Space Jam 2' movie due to repeated attempts to seduce Penelope Pussycat, a black cat who gets a white stripe making Pepe think she is a skunk. His attempts were unwanted and aggressive. Warner Bros. no longer want Pepe representing the company .
Pepe Le Pew Won’t Be Appearing In Warner Bros’ ‘Space Jam’ Sequel: Here’s Why – Deadline

[paraclete]

ah the good old days

[jlisenbe]

repeated attempts to seduce Penelope Pussycat

And of course the name of the female cat is strictly a coincidence.

What meaning and lessons do you get from Noah's story that I don't get?

That God, though patient and long-suffering, will judge wickedness and yet is faithful to preserve and care for the righteous. Only a non-literal approach allows a person to "divert" around what is clearly the primary lesson to be learned from the story.

[jlisenbe]

And yes, the binary was opened up to countless possibilites -- e.g., lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, questioning, asexual, enby -- humans whom God loves and cares about, and asks us to love and care about too.

And how about the thieves, rapists, liars, child-abusers, genocidal maniacs, racists, wife beaters, and others of the "countless possibilites" we find after Gen. 3? Are we to approve of their behaviors and consider them to be normal as you do with homosexuals and TG people, or does loving and caring about people include warning them that God disapproves of their lifestyle? In fact, how could we be caring and loving when we don't give them that warning?

the binary was opened up to countless possibilites

And again, that is strictly conjecture. There is nothing in the Bible to lead anyone to the conclusion that there are more than two genders. If there was, it would have been posted long ago.

[Wondergirl]

And again, that is strictly conjecture. There is nothing in the Bible to lead anyone to the conclusion that there are more than two genders. If there was, it would have been posted long ago.

Do a bit of googling and open-minded Bible reading to learn that David and Johnathan very probably filled this bill, as did Ruth and Naomi.

That God, though patient and long-suffering, will judge wickedness and yet is faithful to preserve and care for the righteous. Only a non-literal approach allows a person to "divert" around what is clearly the primary lesson to be learned from the story.

Thus, what meaning and lessons do you imagine non-literalists get from the Flood story?

[Wondergirl]

...or does loving and caring about people include warning them that God disapproves of their lifestyle? In fact, how could we be caring and loving when we don't give them that warning?

Being LGBT etc. isn't a "lifestyle" -- it's who they are, down to their core. They don't wake up one morning after a restful night's sleep and declare, "I'm going to be a lesbian for a few months."

Most people are right-handed. Being a left-handed person in this right-handed world isn’t easy. Is being left-handed a lifestyle choice?

[talaniman]

There is nothing in the Bible to lead anyone to the conclusion that there are more than two genders. If there was, it would have been posted long ago.

There are many things ancient man was unaware of, or had yet to discover, or understand.