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 Originally Posted by arcura
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Golden_Girl,
You and I were begotten by our human parents, Jesus was begotten by Mary and by God as overshadowed by the Holy Spirt. To me and many others that shows that there was a huge difeerence. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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Golden girl The Son was born directly from the Father for it is written that He is the begotten God that was in the bossom of the Father. The Son was born before anything else came to existence because it is written that everything was made by the Word and the Son's name is The Word of God as written in Revelation. The Word, God's Son is the only one who is born like this, in this special and unique way, THAT makes Him God's begotten. Do not think that the Son was born when He was incarnated,because The Son is God's Son even in the OT and way before the OT as the Son declares , before Abraham I AM. And if He is a Son then He is no doubt born at some time way before TIME was created. He is out of time so He is eternal. We humans are made by the Word from soil. There is a huge difference! All this is in the Bible. The point that I dissagree with you is your statement that God's Son is not God. You claim that He is human while I believe what the Bible says that He is God who became flesh. But the son of the slave will never inheritance the blessings of the son of the free because the son of the slave will not believe because he is a son of slavery, a son of knowing good and evil and not a son of Life! As long as you choose to eat the fruit of knowing good and evil, you will have no Life! |
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I am not saying this is so, I am quoting. As I did not write the bible. These are exact quotes and should be seriously considered. You have to address your concerns to the Bible and not with me, this goes beyond just me. It is clear that the bible also states that David was also the begotten son by God, so Jesus was not the "only begotten" son of God, as stated in the New Testament that you are continuously referring to. So which is true and which is false? As each contradicts the other.
I hear what you are saying, your statements both supports AND contradicts versus of the bible, depending on the verse. Because you are only quoting scriptures from the New Testament and revising pieces of certain parts of the Old T., continuing to restate statements from the New Testament. So does that mean you consider the Old Testament should be voided, excluded, and ignored? If you believe that it should be, then I understand your point of view and where you are coming from. But if you also consider the Old Testament as true then you must explain both and not omit the other. I do not mind if Acura completely sides with your view because the two of you are of the same religion and not of mine. Because if I say the sky is blue and you say "no, it is green and black", of course he will agree... lol, but that does not mean it is true. If you both disagree what is written in your own bible then this is a serious matter for all, but that's your choice to pick. Does your bible also contain the Old Testament and do you value those words as well...or only certain parts? ''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of '' ... sorry, but the bible also states that we are all created in the image of God. Even Adam was created in the image of God, so this statement refers to several and your belief is voided. So you can define as many Hebrew words as you wish, as I consider them more important than it being written in Roman or English. But, you still ONLY refer to the New Testament and Not the Old, as both make up the parts of the bible and skipping around the question and asking questions with a question. In Exodus 4 clearly speaks of God saying to the pharaoh that Israel is His son (as a people) and to let Israel go, we all should be familiar with this story so there is no reason to say that God was actually speaking to Jesus. False. No, your is not more to the point, you are scattering around the point instead of going directly to it. But, that is your choice. But, do not try and force me to believe your view as yours leaves out many important parts. As I am the type of person that rather see the whole picture and not only pieces andpartial of it. If you don't like it then that is your choice, I'm not going to force you (sound familiar?) As you continue to quote, so will I and that's just the way it is. Sorry, but Psalm 2:7 is directly speaking to David and not Jesus. Jesus' name was not mentioned here nor was it referring to Jesus. It should not be taken out of context. David and Jesus are not the same. Psalm 2:7 is a praise psalm that is also a royal psalm. Royal psalms were written for the reigning king of the house of David. "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Psalm 2:6 Also, take a look at Psalms 3 as it is David speaking to God, not Jesus. As well as Psalms 9, ...Why not take a look at the entire Psalms, as many (including Christians) consider it to have been written by David and about David, referring to David and his role as the anointed king...as God had instructed Samuel to anoint David. Did you forget? Fact is fact, nothing should be added by man. Nothing should be deleted by man. Nothing should be twisted by man. It was not I that have proven you wrong but God has proven you wrong. It is when man chooses to add his own additions and interpretations to suit his own personal needs does it cause confusion and disruption instead of keeping focus. There is no reason to cherry pick, but if you like cherries then pick a way... but I'm not picking with you. Confusion is not of God. You have your belief and I have mine. You can see Jesus as however you desire, but do not try and force me (as many Westernized Christians are known to do) to your own personal beliefs because I will also only quote what was written. Why not quote it all...instead of preferring to pick and choose what your heart desires. If you wish, then maybe you should consider starting your own thread about "How to convert others who do not believe the same as you do...even when your own evidence contradicts it's self." Your bible is the New Testament and maybe a couple of verses of the Old Testament if it seems to fit with how you wish. As I find your contradictions quite amusing. Your quarrel and debate should not be with me, but with your own conscious. Your conscious should not dwell on me, but with yourself. God bless inshallah. "Why do you call me good? Answered Jesus, No-one is good but God alone!" Mark 10:18 "My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd..." Ezekiel 37:24-28 (David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David's relationship to God)" "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, you are my Son; this day have I begotten you." Psalms 2:7 “Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14 "Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God." Luke 3:38 (Note that Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.) |
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Golden_Girl,
YES there are if, ands and buts about it. Many people kneel before an alter when the pray to God, I do. If I should happen to kneel before a statue of Jesus when I pray to Him there is no difference. If I am before a statue of a Saint such as Mary, the mother of God, and ask her to pray for me to her son there is no difference. If you look at a picture of your grandfather and it brings back memories of him and you think of him there is little difference. Please do NOT accuse me or other Catholics, or of other denominations who pay before statues of idolatry. It is not idolatry unless someone is praying TO a statue. Peace and kindness, Fred A Arcura, when I said that "Praising or praying in front of a painting, statue, animals, other persons, or any other objects. That is all idol worship. There are no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it." I was referring to the question being asked about "About Catholics and Statues" and also referring to the verses and surahs "Do those who disbelieve think that they can get away with setting up My servants as gods beside Me? We have prepared for the disbelievers Hell as an eternal abode." 18:102 and "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above..." Exodus 20:3-6 I did not look to see if you had even posted, so my answer was not directed to you personally. Stop taking everything so personal and attacking everyone's answer that seems to disagree with yours. Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs and opinion, as I am also entitled to mine. No reason to always attack. I just wanted to clear that with you. |
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Golden Girl, You do not understand the Bible. Jesus IS God. In the Beginning was the WORD and the Word was with God... and the Word WAS God... John 1:14 and the Word was made FLESH and dwelt among us. The Bible is a self defining book. Then again in John 8... Jesus said these words... Before Abraham was I AM. ( In Exodus God told Moses to go before pharoh and tell him I AM sent him. And note the Jews knew EXACTLY what Jesus was saying.. he was saying HE WAS GOD. They then took up stones to stone him for saying such a thing.) I'm not bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God.. nor am I amused by it. I also am NOT amused by your comment to Arcura. I would not and do not get on the Islam or any other board and argue the Quran. Although I believe it to be utterly false and those that follow it completely deceived. Why would I not do such a thing? Because although I think the religion is wrong, I know I wouldn't win one person over with that attitude. In the Bible we are told to use wisdom. And if we LACKED it, we should ask the Lord for it. ( that verse is in James) Your lack of respect for Arcura's faith in the Bible was not wise.. it was RUDE. Golden Girl... your biggest problem is.. you ERR in not understanding the scripture. That's a bummer. :( |
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Classy T sorry to dissapoint you but I DO understand the bible.
No, I am not bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God, but amused that your bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God and trying to dictate on'e beliefs... oh did I confuse you? Sorry, but words such as "ERR" and "bumer" is what a 12 year old would say when they lack the vocabulary what to say and how to say it... and you sure do not look 12 :p. Using words such as "bumer" and "ERR" is a lack of basic knowledge. You are better off deleting that as it looks foolish... lol We all should be mature adults here and free to discuss in a civilized manner... which I see you seem to lack :rolleyes: You are free to go on any forum that you wish and you can't tell me what to do, where to, nor how to post. But, I would not allow you to try and dictate others around just because you don't agree and dislike what ALL of the scriptures state I am free to answer wherever I so choose, so if you don't like it then you can keep moving along Ms. T. As I am free to express my views without feeling suppressed or bullied :D. The question was "Who is Jesus to you?" so if it deeply bothers you on how I answered this question or what scriptures state, then that is a big pill that you will just have to swallow as I did not ask for your opinion ;) To say that you are not bothered and yet post such an immature post up here clearly expresses your innermost drama that you have with yourself as well as for others. Your deeply bothered because you are unable to answer these questions and your only statement when you are unable to answer is to say "Jesus is Lord" when you lack to understand the bible... but that's not an answer... as that is no different than you sticking your fingers in your ears or placing a blindfold over your eyes when you do not know the answer and have been proven wrong and want to see it only your way. That is fine. But, you can not and will not everyone to view everything your way... dictatoship is over Ms. T |
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I believe this thread should be closed by the Experts since views from other members are not considered as "orthodox", that are different, and therefore attacked. If other members feel that they need to force their views on who Jesus is to them and lack respect of versatile opinions other than their own, then it should be closed.
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Golden Girl,
I did not intend to attack you. In fact I don't believe that I did. I did earlier explain the difference in the use of the word begotten. We are all begotten of the Father but in different ways than Jesus was. Perhaps you missed that. We are born of human parents, male and female. Jesus was born of a human women and a Spiritual God. There is a vast difference in those two different begottens. By the way I do agree with ClassyT. But yes you may understand the bible your way but not as many others do. Peace and kindness, |
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Golden girl It seems to me that you are the one not standing the fact that Jesus is God.I am sorry for that but I never forced you to see things the way I do. As for If I accept the Ot as much as I do with the NT, I don't have to prove myself to you, my view is well posted in many threads right here and most of all, my belief is well known by my God through my faith in His Son,Jesus Christ! You think you know the Bible but without faith you know nothing! For we are not to be asked what do we know but what do we believe? Even if you come to know the entire Bible till it's last Jod,without faith in it you will know nothing and the whole Bible from the beginning to the end is all about Jesus and you claim to know who Jesus is because you know some verses.I 'll tell you what you know... You know nothing. 'cause you may read a person's biography and know every little detail of his life, but does this mean that you really know this person? I do not know every little detail of my father's life, still I assure you I KNOW him! You cannot know my Father because you are Ishmael and you did not live with my Father because you are the son of the slave, while I AM the son of the free! If you do not live with your Father how can you ever know Him? I was also once Ishmael,but through my faith in Jesus, I AM Isaak! Who is Jesus to you Golden girl? I'll tell you who He is!He is a total stranger to you!That's what you should have answeared to the OP's question and your statement would have been much more appriciated because it is the truth and there is nothing bad with the truth.But you pretend to know, therefore you know nothing!Even if you claim you know Him, He does not know you because you do not believe in Him!So until you become son of the free,do not try to tell the son of the free who his Father is! |
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Sorry to interrupt, but how do I stop getting emails sent to me every time someone posts something on this thread? No offense but this entire topic of who is Jesus to me bores me to no end. |
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Brother adam,
Well said. Fred |
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl
Whoa, I wasn't unkind to you nor did I bully you. You HAVE expressed who you think Jesus is. And if someone forgot to thank you for YOUR THOUGHTs... then let me be the first to do so. Thank you Golden Girl. We ALL know who you think the Lord Jesus Christ is. You posted your OPINION. Using wisdom would be to say it and then leave. What you are doing is attacking our Faith and while it doesn't bother me like you assume it does... I speak my mind. I was candid with you. I wasn't unkind. THe only one on here bullying anyone is YOU. All I said Incidentally is you ERR not understanding scripture. If you REALLY knew the Bible you'd know Jesus Christ said that to the Pharisee's of his day.. and IF I know my Bible like it think I do... he wasn't 12 when he said it. So all of your insulting words about me being immature and whatever else... is a wasted breath. ( or keyboard typing) Refer to Mathew 22:29 Jesus said this... Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. I didn't attack you personally by calling you names and belittling you like YOU DID ME. I called you out on your lack of disrespect of Christianity. I mostly stay on the Christian Board Golden Girl... so I'm not moving along. Sorry to disappoint you. I love the Lord Jesus Christ. I love HIS word. IF my passion for him appears to be "drama"to you... how shall I put this? HMMMM? I DON'T CARE. There is no dictatorship. And my name isn't MS. T. Have a nice day. Tess |
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Now we have come to the end, Let us tell each other that we love them! Who is Jesus to me? The only way to the Father, only by him am I saved from this cruel world full of sin. With out Jesus giving his life for me how could I live? With out my sins being covered by his blood God the Father would not even see me. I thank Jesus for giving me the chance to be seen by my Father who is in Heaven, not here on this earth that will soon pass away, but HEAVEN! I can't wait to see him face to face. If you know Jesus and he lives in your heart than you will have no doubts who is God and who is Jesus. It is through Jesus that you are able to talk straight to the Father. Call no man Father for there is only one who is in Heaven and will return to take his people home. So given this chance if you have questions isn't it wise to go straight to the source? That is what I will do tonight and I will include everyone in my prayers.
Love to all, In Christ Jesus Name I Pray |
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classyT,
I agree that Golden Girl errs and does not fully understand the bible. I also agree with smithm that Jesus Christ is the way to heaven. He is my Lord and savior and to all who have follow His word and deeds and have faith in Him. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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Originally Posted by classyT
No Ms. T. It is your ignorance and your "unchristian-like" behavior that you allow to define who you are. Honestly, I think you are a disappointment to true Christians and they would laugh at your uncuth behavior. What was your purpose of even responding to my answer? I did not ask for your response. It was an answer and not a question. So, if you consider my point of view as threatening just because it is different, then maybe you need to go back up to the alter for prayer as that is very prejudice, dictatorship behavior, and insulting. Leave the drama outside where it belongs. You do not even speak sober... :o |
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Golden_Girl,
I'm a Christian and I agree with ClassyT's assessment of you. I think others here will do so also. You do not fully understand the bible or you would know that Jesus IS the son of God and God the son of the one and only triune God. That is of course IF you believe what the bible says. By the way I do NOT use uppercase letters to shout, rather, like ClassyT I use them for emphasis. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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Golden girl Wherever Christians are, they are gathered in His name and where two or three are gathered in My name says the Lord Jesus,the Son of God,The Mighty God,there I AM also! You are here not in His name, you are here to insult Him and we as His one true Body cannot accept this. Despite the denominations that we all come from,we are one under Him for He is the head and we are His body.Try to annoy the head and the rest of the body will not stand and watch, for if a scorpion tries to walk on the head, the hand will throw him down and the foot will smash it. Be smashed golden girl because your points about our Lord are like a scorpion to Him! In the name of Jesus, be smashed! |
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl
I hope you feel better now... nothing like slinging insults to make the flesh feel puffed up. Enjoy! :) Fred, I wanted to give you a greenie to balance the red one you received but I have to spread the love and it won't let me. Sorry my friend. |
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Ms T, when you direct insults to another, do expect them to be given in return. Adam7gur, if you read my earler post on this thread, not once did I attack nor forcefully attempt to persuade you. I chose to snswer this question and did not expect your barbaric nature to try and attack my opinion. You are very arrogant in your thinking and are hypocritical with your statements as you clearly say one thing and yet do the next (next page over).
But, answer the question that was being asked as Jesus is important to me as well, just in a different way. You must try and understand that others from all walks of life and beliefs are also posting here.. not only Christians. As there are also different denominations of Christianity who do not completely agree and posses their own differences as well. No two people will think exactly alike in all areas. Adam7gur and Arcura, please do explain your purpose of attempting to persuade me to your view. Your view is yours, not mine and the same vice versa. You did direct your response to me, correct? As my name was mentioned. I respect your view, but you must all respect mine as well and stick to the question being asked. My view will not and never will change, as I will continue to also quote from the scriptures that are often overlooked, ignored, altered, and misinterpreted. So there is no need to continue to persuade or force me, either in a passive agreesive manner (Adam7gur and Arcura) or in an aggressive, uncooth, and dictatorship and manner (Ms. T). A lesson to be learned. If a question is asked, everyone is free to respond to the question however they seem fit without being biased to the other who answers differently... even if you do not agree. A quite simple theory, but lacks to be practised. The forums should be a democratic community where others are free and not suppressed nor impelled to share our thoughts, beliefs, confirmations without being offended, persuaded to convert, nor insulted. Which is not possible ith me as I am free to share my evidence with others who wish to challenge, as I am very opinionated. Even if the only agreement is to agree to disagree, as I had stated in an earlier post. Arcura, sorry but everyone does not think alike here as I have read several of the previous posts that were posted here. Just because everyone does not think alike does not mean that they must be attacked.. not even in a passive aggressive manner which is also annoying. Thank you. So Adam to say something such as for me to "Be smashed" is crazy and foolish, so I will leave you with these scriptures, since you feel the need to attack because I believe different than you, your not even speaking as a true "Christian" should ;). Nor do you have the authority to "smash" anything other than yourself. Please do read and ask God to have temper-control. Also learn to be at peace and do not attempt to respond to my posts any longer, respect my viewpoint, and be at peace: Q. 3:113-114 They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate. John 11:52 And not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. Q. 2:62 & 5:69 Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. John 17:20 I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word. Q. 7:159 Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous. |
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