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excon · Sep 16, 2012, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

their apology is a public display of weakness in an attempt at appeasement.

Hello again, tom:

I suppose you could say a hostage negotiator APOLOGIZES for a kidnapper. It DOES make the cops look weak. In fact, it truly IS an attempt at appeasement...

They are so wrong, to do that... They should SHOW the kidnappers of the world just how POWERFUL the cops are... That'll STOP kidnapping, won't it??

excon

talaniman · Sep 16, 2012, 09:46 AM

I think he is still looking for the link to back up his appease and apology lie, that has been, in the words of he and speech... DEBUNKED!!

tomder55 · Sep 17, 2012, 05:59 AM

Geeze ;take a couple days off to enjoy the weekend and football...
I already quoted Evita's apology . Yeah yeah I know she doesn't come right out and say we're sorry ;but that is what it was nonetheless.

You want to speak of a lie ? The lie is that all this has anything to do with a video.

paraclete · Sep 17, 2012, 06:03 AM

Of course you are not sorry Tom, excepting that some americans got killed, but hey americans get killed everyday in service of their country don't they? So just another day at the office, what is there to be sorry about

Have you wondered why they get killed Tom, is it just that someone is out to get you? Or is there more to it, see my new thread hey, great retirement of those obsolete planes in Afghanistan

excon · Sep 17, 2012, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

You want to speak of a lie ? The lie is that all this has anything to do with a video.

Hello again, tom:

I agree. It has NOTHING to do with the video.. It was just an excuse to show their anti American hatred... So, how's that Obama's fault?

Oh, that's right, you guys can't remember how things were 4 years ago... I suppose you're going to tell us that the Arab world LOVED us under Bush, but now they hate us...

Here's the deal... Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??

excon

paraclete · Sep 17, 2012, 06:36 AM

Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly, if it was Bush you would have been in Syria by now, I think Obama has got the message, US future is not in the middle east, not in Europe but in Asia, but the problem is he has come too late to the game, there are other players who might even deny him a seat at the table. What was more important than being in Russia?

Be clear, Ex, american influence is not welcome in Asia, they are happy to trade with you but that is as far as it goes. In fact your might even be a barrier to progress. Consider what might happen in Korea if you are not a constant threat? If you weren't part of the equation? You have to allow people to decide their own course of action even if it means you loose. It is a lesson surely you learnt in Vietnam?

NeedKarma · Sep 17, 2012, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

US future is not in the middle east,

They desperately need their oil though.

paraclete · Sep 17, 2012, 06:50 AM

Karma no doubt you have heard of Alaska, of the Gulf, they have no problems Romney will allow them to drill everywhere

tomder55 · Sep 17, 2012, 07:20 AM

Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??

Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly,

Clete is right ;you create a vacuum and it will get filled.If America appears weak and apologetic ,that posture will be exploited . Also this adm has shown that there are no consequences for crossing us(except if that country is Israel). We had an attack on our embassy in Georgia last year that the press and the adm pretty much down played . We had an assassination plot by Iranain Quds Force of a Saudi diplomat on American soil that we did not aggressively respond to.

And now our public posture is to condemn some idiot video maker instead of putting the screws on the Egyptian government ;the Libyan government and others who we know were complicit in the attacks.

tomder55 · Sep 17, 2012, 07:42 AM

More mixed signals. What is ambassador Rice smoking ?
Obama Administration Not So Sure Attack in Benghazi Was Planned - Global - The Atlantic Wire

paraclete · Sep 17, 2012, 03:43 PM

Tom disengaging from an area is not being weak and apologetic, it is being realistic about where your trading interests lie. You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.

You want weak and apologetic, look at your response to Libya, an al Qaeda attack and you want to say protesters attacked your embassy with military weapons. You wouldn't be in this situation if you had not made yourself a parriah throughout the Muslim world.

Election year and Obama can't afford another war, the US cannot afford another war.
Brer Bunny, he lay low

tomder55 · Sep 18, 2012, 04:47 AM

You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.

The Pacific is another example where our perceived weakness has emboldened a nation intent on territorial expansion... or have you not been following the aggressions in the Senkaku Islands ;the Spratley Islands ,and with almost every other nation in the First Island Chain region.

paraclete · Sep 18, 2012, 04:55 AM

Tom this is something the US needs to stay out of. These are centuries old arguments. We know that during WWII Japan occupied all these places, before then we have only historical records shrouded by time

excon · Sep 18, 2012, 06:00 AM

Hello again,

More stuff from Mother Jones:

.. Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish."

Romney spoke of "the Palestinians" as a united bloc of one mindset, and he said: "I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way."
"And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and I say there's just no way."

Romney was indicating he did not believe in the peace process and, as president, would aim to postpone significant action: "[S]o what you do is, you say, you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem…and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

This is a LEADER??

Excon

tomder55 · Sep 18, 2012, 06:39 AM

This is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .

Wondergirl · Sep 18, 2012, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

this is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .

So we should no longer continue to engage them in discussion about it? Let 'em do whatever?

NeedKarma · Sep 18, 2012, 06:44 AM

Sounds like Romney is talking about some Hope and Change.

excon · Sep 18, 2012, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

this is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .

Hello again, tom:

So, we should elect him NOT to lead, but to hold on till somebody better comes along...

kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

He has NO CLUE that HE'S supposed to BE the thing that will happen.. So much so, that he's not even going to try...

Who needs THAT kind of leadership??

Excon

PS> (edited) Yes, I have more to say. If Ronald Reagan felt the same way Romney does, the cold war would NOT have ended!!

tomder55 · Sep 18, 2012, 06:59 AM

It's a more honest assessment of the conflict than we've seen in decades from presidents or candidates from either party. What you are saying is that they should lie to us.
Obama spoke all the right things ;and his negotiations were a dismal failure that led to tense relations with our ally Israel ;and ZERO progress in settling this issue.

Ps.. I've got more . Harry Truman said 'I tell them the truth and they think it's hell'. I'm liking this tell it the way it is Romney . It's a refreshing change from the dance around the issue Romney of the primaries.

excon · Sep 18, 2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Obama spoke all the right things ;and his negotiations were a dismal failure

Hello again, tom:

I'd rather try and fail, than not try at all.. Frankly, that's a very American position to have... That's cause I'm American through and through...

To want to win an election, to do NOTHING about saving the world, is somehow foreign to me... It's NOT American... Maybe Romney is an anchor baby, and not really AMERICAN!

So, we can count on Romney to be a CARETAKER, and NOT a leader, huh??

excon