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In relation to my earlier posting.
(C) The Evil Demon does not involve himself in any matters of language. Misunderstanding of scripture is the result of any number of problems that arise whenever language is used. I have been careful not to come down on one side or the other in this debate. I have just put forward a number of recognized positions. I should make it clear that my position (C) cannot be proven correct. It is just the most likely empirical explanation. That is all that can be said about it. |
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 Originally Posted by paraclete
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Originally Posted by TUT317
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Originally Posted by elscarta
I have not had any dealing with the misunderstanding of scripture, only everyday language. 'The Evil Demon does not involve himself in matters of language misunderstanding of scripture is the result of any number of problems that occur when ever language is used' . This premise has two possibilities (A) True (B) False. If it is true then a empirical explanation is sufficient to explain the problem. If it is false, then you are correct and I am wrong. |
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Originally Posted by elscarta
Individuals should not take the glory of God's Word and turn it into an argument between each other. The judge of both is our Lord. When you think the wisdom of what you hold is more wise, and attempt to over throw your friend, this is nothing more then, putting glory upon your ownself in pride. Be accountable to your own heart, and humble yourself to rest in God's glory. And allow your friend his own path. The spirit of truth is love, and faith in God. And I might as well say good bye to this thread because it has been sunk . |
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Originally Posted by paraclete
There are Christians who believe sincerely that the Holy Spirit inspired their belief that transubstantiation is false. There are other Christians who also sincerely believe that the Holy Spirit inspired their belief that transubstantiation is true. Now you have stated in a previous post that the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict himself, which I agree with 100% so both of the above cannot be inspired by the Holy Spirit as they are in contradiction to each other! SO once again I ask how can we decide who has been truly inspired by the Holy Spirit and who has been deceived? Now some may say that it doesn't matter who is correct since both are sincere in their beliefs and since God judges what is in men's hearts, both are judged righteous by God but Jesus prayed the following John 17:20-23 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Jesus wants us all to be in complete unity and this will not happen if we say that it is all right for people to have contradictory beliefs. |
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elscarta, Without putting anyone on trial or in judgement of the heart of faith, the joy of discussion concerning the Word of God, is that we as Christian, love our Saviour Jesus Christ. (unity) And that we should be in agreement to HIS steps being followed because we believe He is the begotten Son of God. And in giving glory to our Father, the Creator that formed us, we hold to One Faith. And yes that One Faith is holding unity in that love for Jesus Christ. We fulfill scripture in the royal law of love unto all.(No discrimination) "I believe" Christ told HIS disciples that HE was the bread of life, and that HIS blood was the cup of the new testament. That is why it is written by them in testamony for what was given by the inspirtation from the HOLY SPIRIT. On the given day in testamony to establish future celebration of passover, Christ told HIS disciples this is the body and blood that you eat, and drink. That day Christ was speaking of Himself being the lamb of scarifice for Passover. The disciples were unsure of what that meant because they had not yet come to the truth of what would take place on the cross. Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: Thereafter scripture speaks of eating and drinking the spiritual meat and drink in rememberance of what Christ did. It was a once and for all fulfillment, that had been promised by God, so that we could be set free from the bondage of sin. Luke 22:19-20 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (1 Corthinians 11:23-11:29) We are to eat and drink with sincerity of faith and truth for what the body of Christ has fulfilled. 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. Hebrew 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrew 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ~in Christ |
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Back on thread Christ was the once and for all fulfillment, that had been promised by God, so that we could be set free from the bondage of sin. Jeremiah 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. |
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elscarta,
That is why Jesus set up His Church to be "the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." 1 Tim 3:15 That is The Church that Jesus established appointing Peter (the Rock) as its first leader. It is also The Church that the Holy Spirit inspired to promulgate the Holy Bible. It Is The Church that can and has officially told the world what the Bible says accurately. Interpretation of Scripture can only be full trusted IF officially proclaimed by The Church because it is The pillar and support of the truth. This I firmly believe and the only source of biblical interpretation I believe to be true. Why? Because I have faith that it is the only one with the authority from God to do so. I feel very comfortable with that. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. We acknowledge by Adam came sin which offered death with satan. And those that believe and hold One Faith in Christ Jesus, were crucified with HIM on the cross, and buried with in HIM by One Baptism. And so we have the resurrection of the dead. (Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. ) If we do not believe in the resurrection of the dead, then we remain as sinners unto death with satan. 1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. The Fullness of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:22-23-24 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. Why? 1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? I answer that question of why, knowing that we are baptized buried in Christ and raised in righteousness and newness of life. (Romans 6:4) 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 2 Peter 3:13-14 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. ~raised from the dead in Christ |
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The message of law put in the ark of the covenant of the LORD (bears witness against the children of satan) Deu 31:22-23-24-25 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel. And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee. And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. Deu 31:32 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended. The Song of Moses Deu 32:1-4 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Deu 32:5-17 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation. Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee? Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Deu 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. Deu 32:19-28 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this. For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. Deu 32:29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! Deu 32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges. Their vine is not the Rock known as Christ, and their field are the children of satan, the unrighteous sinner (Romans 1:29) Deu 32:32-37 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted, Deu 32:38-40 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? Let them rise up and help you, and be your protection. See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deu 32:41-46 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy. Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people. And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun. This law was commanded to be taught every seven years because God had command Moses to do what He commands to be done. (Deu 31:5 Deu 31:10) REPENT and sin no more! Hebrew 10:26-27-28-29 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ~raised from the dead in Christ |
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Originally Posted by arcura
Moses was the law giver, and God remains true to HIS words spoken to Moses. As it was, it is today, that God has sent the bread of life from heaven, and we that eat of the Word of God do eat of spiritual truth. And those that gather daily from the WORD of God a certain rate. God proves them as to whether they will walk in HIS law. 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Dan 9:3-4 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. Remember when Daniel prayed to the Lord, God sent to Daniel skill and understanding. Telling him to go forth in the commandment of righteousness. Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Christ fulfilled all that was written, so that we acknowledge it as truth, and place our trust in HIS Way, and our Father's Will is done. Because it was given as God's grace to us, HIS love for all mankind. Grace for grace/ love for love. John 1:7 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Follow Christ Jesus Psalm 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide. 1 Peter 2:21-22 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Trust in Christ Jesus Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. `in Christ |
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This us how and why I follow Jesus
Now I abide in faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love. Jesus demonstated Sacrificial love for us by dying for our sins, making possible our forgiveness and restoring us to fellowship with the Father. Christ's love goes beyound the cross, everything we do and face is touched by His continuing love. Everything about us hinges on love because God, Who is love, created us in His image, because God loves us and gives us blessings and lets us share them. God knows we need time to grow, with overwhelming choices Makes it hard to know which way io go, but our Lord and Savior shows us our need to depend on His guiding love. I understand and believe that our deepest, innermost level, That Gods is love. I will trust Him, yield to Him, obey Him, and serve Him wholehearedly. One of the keys to our spiritual growth as Christians is believing in Gods love at all times, in the good and bad. Without making His love our ultimate dwelling, we cannot fully live in faith and hope. I refuse to take a step or a breath without Remaining sensitve to" the greatest of these" OUR FATHER'S LOVE. Though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but not have love, I am nothing. Love and Blessing, in Jesus Name Maggie 3 |
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