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Oh I thought I should add... Jesus is God. |
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Hi, Leidenschaftlich für Wahr!
I haven't seen you on the site in awhile! Nice to see you being here again and I also appreciate the fact that you're a person of Faith! Thanks! |
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Jesus is the Strength of my life, the Source== the eternal, indwelling presence of God. .
The Love of my life. He is my everything. Nothing compares to the freedom that waits for you within His loving arms. Nothing will ever bring more completion to your heart and soul than knowing the unconditional love of Jesus. He can be yours today== if you choose. He is the Way the Truth and the Life if you believe. Love and blessing, Maggie 3 |
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Leidenschaftlich für Wahr,
Nice to see you here. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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 Originally Posted by arcura
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That he was a great profit, teacher, and messenger. He was created by God and performed many miracles, but is not a god. The bible has endured great amounts of alterations, deletions, and additions... that is an important fact that should be carefully considered and not brushed aside. |
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Golden_Girl,
I strongly disagree. If you, or anyone, compares the earliest versions of the bible with those really good ones of today you will find them to be greatly similar. Over the years there have been SOME translation corrections but no vast alterations your message seems to infer. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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Originally Posted by arcura
No Arcura, I strongly disagree. For one moment I would like for everyone to stop and think of these situations, please take the time to read carefully. There is no single scriptural text in which Jesus claimed to be divine. In fact, there are numerous texts where he had mentioned not being of equal nature to God (John 8: 28-29, 14: 10, 24. 28. 31. Mk. 13: 32, 10: 18). . It was he who stated that “I can do nothing on my own authority” (John 5: 30).Even the testimony of Paul, we find that the Book of Acts indicates that Paul was accused of not telling the truth about the teachings of Jesus, an accusation which he did not deny but tried to justify (see Romans 3:7-8). :( Even the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Cerinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus as a prophet of God, to name a few. Long after the departure of Jesus from earth, his faithful followers continued to "keep up their daily attendance at the Temple" (Acts 2:46). It would be beyond belief to imagine that had Jesus indeed preached to his apostles that he was God, and if Jesus had indeed commanded them to forsake the commandments, that they would then disregard all of this and continue to worship in a Jewish synagogue. Christian The "trinity" was not revealed by God Almighty or Jesus, but Trinitarian Christians believe in it. Why? I will explain why, the answer lies in the council of Nicea of 325 CE. The concept of the Trinity was not even introduced into Christianity until close to four hundred years after Jesus . It was only then that "the Trinitarian dogma 'One God in three Persons' became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought ... it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development". The New Catholic Encyclopedia," Volume XIV, p. 295. This explains that even the The New Catholic Encyclopedia admited it that Jesus, John, Matthew, Luke, Mark, all of the apostles, and even Paul, were completely unaware of any "Trinity." :eek: Emperor Constantine, the pagan emperor of the Romans, began to notice the increasing number of converts to the new faith among his subjects. This is the Romanized mythology in origin, the unqualified Trinitarianism, was added during the 4th century. This matter should not be brushed aside so easily and in vain. "The controversy over the matter of the Trinity had in 318C.E. once again just blown up between two church men from Alexandria, Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop. The emperor sent these men many letters encouraging them to put aside their "trivial" disputes regarding the nature of God and the "number" of God, etc. Constantine realized that a unified church was necessary for a "strong kingdom". When negotiations failed to settle the dispute, the emperor called the "Council of Nicea" in order to resolve these, and other matters. The council met and voted on whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or not. They effectively voted Jesus into the position of God with an amendment condemning all Christians who believed in the unity of God. There is even extensive proof that most of those who signed this decree did not actually believe in it or understand it but thought it politically expedient to do so." Additional beliefs were later combined in 431AD to give Mary, the mother of Jesus the title "Theotokos" (God-bearing). This is how she became known to us as "Mother of God." What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Historical origin of the "Trinity" myth Taking a look at his Name. "Jesus" is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua, and means "a savior". The angel, addressing Joseph, said: "Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). The word "Christ" is not a name. It is a Greek word transferred into the English language, and means "Anointed." Jesus Christ, therefore, means "The Anointed Jesus." The anointing of Jesus took place when he was 30 years of age, at the time he was baptized by John. Of this, said Peter-- "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power" (Acts 10:38). Jesus was to fulfill the three offices, which was clearly foretold by Moses and the prophets. The New Testament confirms all of these predictions. Therefore, to truly know Jesus in the Bible sense, we must know what he taught as a Prophet. We must understand the sacrifice he offered as a Priest, and the ruling he will exercise as a King. Jesus and God can not be co-equal because the Bible says "... my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). Obviously if God is greater than Jesus then they can not be equal. We also read: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32) If Jesus and God were equal then it follows that they will be equal in knowledge. But as we can see, God is greater in knowledge than Jesus (pbuh). God is claimed to have "begotten" Jesus. Jesus is claimed to be the "Son" of God. "Beget" is a verb which implies an action. No matter how you define what God actually did in order to "beget" Jesus, any definition must require that God Almighty performed some action and then Jesus came into being. Before God performed this action Jesus was not. After God performed this action Jesus came into being. Thus, not only is Jesus not eternal, since there was a time (before the "begetting") when he did not exist, but he can also never be co-eternal with God since God was in existence at a time when Jesus was not. This is very simple grade-school logic. What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"? Through Moses, God said: "I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him" (Deut. 18:18-19). He was to be like Moses, and would therefore fulfill similar functions. Moses was a prophet, a mediator, a lawgiver, and a ruler, or king. Being like unto Moses, Jesus must fulfill all these. Therefore, to reject Jesus' teaching is to disbelieve God, for "He that believeth not God hath made Him a liar" (l John 5:10). It is true that Jesus (aka Yeshua as well as Isa) was one of the most greatest prophets and messengers. There are two extremes, "the Jews, who rejected Jesus as a Prophet of God, called him an impostor. And the Christians on the other hand, consider him to be the son of God and worship him as such." The later versions of the bible only continues to be diluted and cause further divisions and sects of beliefs. Unfortunately, there were hundreds of scholars who were used to create and re-create different versions of the bible over the centuries. Scholars cannot fully agree with the work of other scholars. Sorry, but no translation was "inspired", because they were put together, altered, and adulterated by men. 'How can we know God preserved His inspired words precisely the way He revealed them thousands of years ago? How can we know which original texts are most accurate? There are, after all, thousands of “original” texts from which we get our translations. We must go to God for the answer." What’s Wrong With “New” Bible Translations? | Living | theTrumpet.com by the Philadelphia Church of God “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Romans 3:1-2). It is fact that some bibles choose to leave verses out, while others may include. Causing divisions and separations in the church, leading further to multiples of denominations and sects, versions, and the additional false doctrine further added. From the Greek New Testament, the Roman Catholic Church, King James Version (KJV), New International Version (NIV), NASB (New American Standard Bible), NKJV (New King James Version), etc. etc. Evern many of the "Christian" holidays are in fact pagan, "from Christmas" to "Easter" Wrong Bible We as humanity are supposed to worship the one God only, any further dietes and additions added to God is false, dogma, and polytheistic. The truth can at times be difficult to swallow. But fact is fact. It does not hurt as much to learn the one truth of God, and avoid the hypocrasies of man and such man-made dogmas. Further Important References To Read: Because God "gave His only begotten Son.."?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because God "gave His only begotten Son.."? How many "Sons" does God have?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - How many "Sons" does God have? Christianity's true founder, Paul, admits fabrication: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Christianity's true founder, Paul, admits fabrication Because he was the "Image of God"?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because he was the "Image of God"? Because God was his "Father"?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because God was his "Father"? What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Table Of Contents Prophet Jesus (PBUH) Never Claimed Divinity By Dr. Jamal Badawi What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"? The Trinity Doctrine. True or False ? Is There a Right and Wrong Translation of the Bible? The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction? Jesus Christ: Prophet, Priest, and King The Truth about Jesus Christ What are the ERRORS in the King James Version Bible? - Part 1 of 2 May God bless as always inshaallah... |
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Golden_Girl,
I still very much disagree with your opinion. I do not have the time to go into a discussion on why but I do use 8 different versions of the bible in my studies on this and much more. The Apostle Thomas said, "my Lord and My God" Jesus did not disagree with that and neither do I. Fred |
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Originally Posted by arcura
Well, I only intended to answer the question as we all are free to believe what we desire. I understand that for many, they question why believe facts and what is most apparent, when ignorance is bliss.. |
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Leidenschaftlich für Wahr be careful when you judge, because you do not have the authority to do so nor did you attempt to even know my beliefs. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I proudly bow before God and one God only FIVE times a day and I pray to Him throughout the day everyday. And.. um... hmmm.. how many times do you bow before God :eek: oh... none? No wonder the silence. Sorry but if you are counting pagan Christmas trees and Easter bunny rabbits, they do not count.
I do not worship man nor do I idolize their man-made fabricated beliefs. I 100% reject any man-made additions given from Paulotheistic believers, Pagan Constantine believers, Pagan King James version believers, Druids, and any revisions from deceitful scribes and scholars whose only interests were to blend and combine religions and secure political power over their little kingdoms in order to make pagans "happy" and comfortable to "convert" a little. Further causing separation and "denominations", which is completely unholy and clearly written in the bible to avoid. Sorry, but I'm not into "cherry picking". My God is the God of Adam, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, and the God of Yeshua (aka Jesus due to innacurate translation... among many, a Hebrew name, it is NOT the Greek name). No deities allowed to be added, no romanized pagan trinities. Just God. And only God. Man can not bring man to heaven. Only God. So, now I have to also pray for man-worshipping believers, such as yourself Leidenschaftlich für Wahr, that you will learn to only bow before one God and no other, any other is complete paganism and a grave sin. But, unfortunately for you, you will be the one who will be forced by God Himself to bow only to Him. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3)...in case you are not familiar with the first commandment. "Thus does God command you, that you may remember. Verily, this is my straight path: follow it, and do not follow other paths which will separate you from God's path. Thus does God command you, that you may be righteous.” Qur'an 6:151-153 |
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speakez66,
You have made a good point with that post. However I think that the return of Jesus Christ is much sooner than 200o years from now. Most of the prophesies for the return have been fulfilled. Peace and kindness, Fred |
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Originally Posted by arcura
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Golden_Girl,
Yes, that is the way it is. Fred |
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Originally Posted by arcura
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Caddy, Well as you already know, I am a fundy and I believe the Bible to be absolute truth. So the answer to your question, if I understand it correctly, would be the LORD himself... Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose Notice he said BEFORE the womb he knew you... |
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Originally Posted by classyT
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Hi, Golden Girl. Scripture samples for your consideration. Gen 1:26 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (KJV) Obviously, a singular person would not say US. John 8:58 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV) A statement that can only be made by an immortal Matt 28:18 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (KJV) Here's something else to consider; have you ever seen anyone healed of a physical condition throough prayer in the name of Mohammed? I have seen people healed in the name of Jesus. Maranatha! |
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Galveston thanks for your opinion as you are entitled to it. But, that will not make me to "re-convert". The question being asked was "Who is Jesus to you?", I knew once I answered with my opinion all sorts of people were going to rush and try and attack me for my statement. But the question was "Who is Jesus to you?", so if that is what Jesus is to you, I am not going to try and force you to change your decision. But, I'll definitely defend Why I said what I said and back it up with ful evidence.
In deed he was a great prophet from God and performed many miracles just as some of the other prophets had done before him. Some people say, "well he was the son of God"... so was Adam and God's angels and it was mentioned in the bible, but does that mean that Adam and the angels Are therefore God? Nope. As I had mentioned before, unfortunately, the bible has been, and still is, diluted and causing further divisions and sects of beliefs. There were hundreds of scholars who were used to create and re-create different versions of the bible over the centuries. Scholars cannot fully agree with the work of other scholars. Sorry, but no translation was "inspired", because they were put together, altered, and adulterated by men. The bible has been numerously altered with man-made fabricated beliefs. I 100% reject any man-made additions given from Paulotheistic believers, Constantine believers, King James version believers, Druids, and any revisions from deceitful scribes and scholars whose only interests were to blend and combine religions and help their kings/emporers to secure political power over their little kingdoms in order to make pagans "happy" and comfortable to "convert" a little. I do not believe the entire bible is false, but it is a proven fact (even from biblical scholars) that the bible has suffered many alterations, deletions, and additions due to personal and selfish reasons. Your fact and scriptural "evidence" versus my scriptural evidence only further proves the fact that in hundreds of biblical passages are contradicting itself. It states this... and yet it states that. How do you know 100% for sure that that was what he said since many wordings have been added AND deleted? Faith is one thing, and something good to have, and yet truth and evidence is another as God does not want us to be blinded from the falsehood of others who thought it was kind of them to make such alterations. Your question asked was "Here's something else to consider; have you ever seen anyone healed of a physical condition throough prayer in the name of Mohammed?" -Number one Galveston, Mohammed NEVER claimed to be devine or a god. He was the last prophet that was actually prophesied in the bible and the torah. -Mohammed had great respect for Jesus( Isa/Yeshuah). -He died just as any other mortal. -Prophet Mohammed did perform miracles only through GOD, as Mohammed was only mortal, he had always made this known. So, please carefully read and understand and learn the facts first, that is very important. A few references: Miracles of Muhammad - Jews for Allah ABOUT ISLAAM \ Who is Muhammad? What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Table Of Contents Prophet Jesus (PBUH) Never Claimed Divinity By Dr. Jamal Badawi What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"? The Trinity Doctrine. True or False ? Is There a Right and Wrong Translation of the Bible? The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction? Jesus Christ: Prophet, Priest, and King The Truth about Jesus Christ What are the ERRORS in the King James Version Bible? - Part 1 of 2 |
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl
John 3:8 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Matthew 1:3 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Originally Posted by Golden_Girl
The Sopherim were the authorized revisers of the Sacred Text; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorized custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. The Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places. The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim. Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Neh. 8:8 (*1) (cp. Ezra 7:6, 11). The men of "the Great Synagogue" completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410 - 300 B.C. Example of the Massorah locked in by numbers to refer back to the original Sacred Text Replied to satan: Matthew 4:4 But 1161 he answered 611 and said 2036 , It is written 1125 , Man 444 shall 2198 0 not 3756 live 2198 by 1909 bread 740 alone 3441, but 235 by 1909 every 3956 word 4487 that proceedeth 1607 out of 1223 the mouth 4750 of God 2316. |
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