[jlisenbe]

I watched the video. There was no stripping.

Then you had your eyes closed.

important literacy programs that help teach children tolerance for members of the LGBTQ community.

And thus the real objective comes out. It has nothing to do with children reading. It has everything to do with liberals want to influence children with their pro-gay propaganda.

I wonder how many times pastors are called in for a "story time" in order to present the Biblical view?

[Wondergirl]

The Biblical view? What is that?

(Watched it again. No stripping. Just evangelicals trying to paint drag queens with a tar-covered brush.)

God is gender-fluid, btw.

[jlisenbe]

The Biblical view? What is that?

I keep forgetting. You don't know about that.

God is gender-fluid, btw.

Really? "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." So once again, if you knew the Bible, it would have kept you from making a ridiculous statement. But rescue yourself. Show us that place in the Bible where it says God is "gender-fluid". In your words, "bwa-ha-ha". For that matter, show us where God says ANYONE is gender-fluid. It's just an anti-God position found nowhere in the Bible.

[jlisenbe]

This is 40 seconds into the video. It is plainly stripping, a grown man wanting to show his axx to children as part of "reading hour". And you support it. Good grief.



Perhaps you can tell us where the reading is in this strip act? Really, I feel very sorry for you. You have committed yourself to a political agenda, and it does not allow you to recognize at any time any error in that agenda. You are the most ideologically locked-in person I have ever come across.

[Wondergirl]

1. The spirit of God is ruach, the original Old Testament Hebrew, feminine. The femininity of God is everywhere.

Not much to see there. And kids have undoubtedly seen their parents' behinds. Big deal.

[jlisenbe]

If you knew anything about Hebrew, you would know that the gender of a noun is not a locked in indicator of gender identity. The Hebrew words for human body parts, for instance, are generally feminine as well, even when referring to men. And the Greek counterpart, "pneuma", is gender neutral, and ruach can also be translated as "wind". Surely you are not suggesting that the wind is female? But far worse for your case, the pronouns used to refer to "Spirit" are generally masculine. What do you do with that?

Now if you want to say that God transcends gender, then that could be discussed, but it would not change the fact that we are formed as male or female. There are no other choices in the Bible.

kids have undoubtedly seen their parents' behinds. Big deal.

How much you want to bet they did not see their dad's behind while he was prancing around pretending to be a female stripper in front of a group of children in a public library? But you have to come up with some excuse to abide by your locked-in ideology.

[Wondergirl]

So white men rule. Got it! (But Genesis 1-2 is an allegory. Ha!) And yes, there are other choices in the Bible.

And your kids were very bored growing up. Got it!

Like John Pavlovitz says in his book, "ultimately, understanding God as merely a cisgender, heterosexual man shrinks God into something comfortable, something easily managed—and something far too small to be God. If we really believe God made every human being who has ever walked the planet, and that each of these people bears the DNA of their Creator, we’re going to need to rethink the story we inherited. Maybe this whole gender identity and sexual orientation thing is a little more complex and expansive than we can glean from a 4,000-year-old poem (Genesis1–2), and maybe we should stop using it to destroy other people. Maybe, rather than shrinking God any longer, we need to release God from that confining space inside our heads. And as difficult as it is, maybe we should expand our very image of God in a way that argues with our learned theology, because if we do, it might make us far more willing to treat the diverse humanity that crosses our paths with the reverence and respect each one of them deserves—as made by and of God."

[jlisenbe]

So white men rule. Got it!

And your kids were very bored growing up. Got it!

This is what I hate about discussing anything with you. Instead of putting a little thought into the matter, you just come back with these brainless remarks that have nothing to do with the discussion and amount to little more than personal insults. The comments about white men and my kids, mentioned by no one here but you, is just from a different conversation I guess. But later you'll want to come back with an appeal against being a jerk.

(But Genesis 1-2 is an allegory. Ha!)

Then why did you make reference to "ruach" as though it is a literal reference? You cannot have it both ways. But I'm glad that you now seem to consider Gen. 3 as being literal. Progress!!

And yes, there are other choices in the Bible.

Yeah. I can tell by how you have listed them. Do you really think you are fooling anyone? It's why I always ask you these questions. I know before I hit "reply" that you don't have answers.

[Wondergirl]

This is what I hate about discussing anything with you. Instead of putting a little thought into the matter, you just come back with these brainless remarks that have nothing to do with the discussion and amount to little more than personal insults.

Oh, but that's how you respond to me. I thought that is how you want to play this, just fun tossing insults back and forth.

Then why did you make reference to "ruach" as though it is a literal reference? You cannot have it both ways.

it isn't one way or even both ways. It's many ways. Can God be defined by or contained within a traditional gender definition? If all human beings are made in the image of God, then God transcends every current understanding we have of God. God has to be gender-fluid, definitely nonbinary. Once we understand and accept that, we can discover the character of that God in every human being we encounter -- and with no exceptions.

[jlisenbe]

it isn't one way or even both ways. It's many ways.

But the Bible does not say that. You do, but you cannot support your idea.

Still waiting for those "other choices" you claim to know about in the Bible.

[Wondergirl]

God has to be gender-fluid. The scope and capacity of our love for others grows as a result. We don’t need to believe that “He” has the whole world in “His” hands. We just need to trust that we -- cis, LGBTQ+, Black, white, and so many more categories -- are lovingly held.

[Wondergirl]

But the Bible does not say that. You do, but you cannot support your idea.

Why a many-gendered God? -- translation issues from the original languages, cultural gender bias in the compilers of the library of books that became the Bible, or perhaps Jesus’ desire to make God approachable and relatable. Jesus used a father, a patriarchal figure people valued so highly at the time -- and even today! Plus, how can a God who is spirit and not body be accurately identified with physical qualifiers: anatomy, physiology, and biology? God transcends gender and yet incorporates every gender.

[jlisenbe]

Still waiting for those “other choices”. All the rest of your post is just your own slanted opinion. So again…where does the Bible support your ideas?

[Wondergirl]

Still waiting for those “other choices”. All the rest of your post is just your own slanted opinion. So again…where does the Bible support your ideas?

Please reread Posts #91 and 92.

[jlisenbe]

No scripture is found in either one. Just your opinion. Keep working at it.

[Wondergirl]

I understand how terrifying it is when you realize our God is transgender. The discomfort and instability are worth facing. The idea is worth entertaining because, ultimately, understanding God as merely a cisgender, heterosexual man shrinks God into something too comfortable, something easily managed—and something far too small to be God.

[jlisenbe]

More opinion. I will wait patiently for you to actually refer to the Bible. In the meantime, you will probably continue with the thoughtless, personal attacks.

Please work harder...MUCH harder.

[Wondergirl]

More opinion. I will wait patiently for you to actually refer to the Bible. In the meantime, you will probably continue with the thoughtless, personal attacks.

Please work harder...MUCH harder.

I have referred to the Bible and the teachings in it. I refuse to play Bible-verse tag and Bible bingo and gotcha.

[jlisenbe]

Actually…you haven’t.

Harder…much harder.

[Wondergirl]

Actually…you haven’t.

Harder…much harder.

As waltero recently posted:

The wisdom of God, is fulfilling itself in many ways and in diverse manners. It is manifested, therefore, in the infinite variety both of the teaching and the life of the Church - yet one, as embodying but one life, the life of Jesus Christ...discovering itself gradually in such a beautiful and well-ordered variety of dispensations...some can only Dance to it, and some can sing to it.

IT APPEARS - To be well placed in your mind...It's not a code of Law that is to be explained. We don't, all, start from the same school of thought. In other words, It is only something that can be experienced, You can not define it. You can not reduce it to a form of a Creed.

Try getting out of your mind and start listening to your heart.