[Allheart]

Yes, anytype of lying is never good, and you are right, not good for a young man or lady to lie about something like this.

This young man, from what I read, that was his fear... he did not want to be untruthful.

And Synn is right, where is our Mr. Confused25 - Can you help us adults out :)

[ScottGem]

Scott think about what you just said.....a virgin girl is a rape victim....she gets pregnant, Has the baby.....so are you going to argue she is equal to the Virgin Mary? Because you would be arguing here is a virgin...and she is a mother.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.

But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.

The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, it's the accepted medical definition.

[smoothy]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.

But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.

The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, its the accepted medical definition.

Virginity was defined by the Church long before most people were literate. Sex is sex. Anything with the Clintonian definition of sex diminishes the meaning and value of virginity...


Under your definition of virgin, you can literally have a woman with a huge rap sheet and prison time for prostitution that might fit your fairly narrow interpretation of virgin. As long as she was providing oral or anal sex as long as she kept it out of that hole then she is a virgin. Therefore how does that give the meaning of virgin more value than my meaning of virgin where a virgin remains pure and untouched by sex.

I would argue my more strict interpretation gives it more significance and thus more meaning.

Anything this simple and clear is diminished when someone wants to find ways to circumvent the intent and spirit of something. Be it criminal law or tax law. Or even a topic of morality.

As an example, what value does a tax law become after it gets gutted by numerous loopholes and exemptions that would apply to 90% of the people.


The actual law is not strengthened by such an act, and in fact ends up greatly diminished.


Like I said... a virgin girl that was raped , impregnated and had a child... is NOT a virgin... pure and simple. I might be sympathetic to her plight, I might feel bad for her. But the fact remains she is not a virgin.

Sex is sex... voluntary or at gunpoint. Have any form of it and you aren't a virgin any longer.

[Alty]

Darnit guys, I now think that smoothy might be right. Everyone has seen the definition of Virgin that has been posted, the one most of us are abiding by is the sexual intercourse section, well, here is the definition of sexual intercourse.

Sexual intercourse
n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.

I think this might put and end to the debate.

[Allheart]

So, if the OP were to say -

I've had sexual relations but not sexual intercourse. That would be accurate.

When I always thought of a virgin, I always thougth - one never having sex.

And sex being the whole act.

Never just thought about the opening act ( so to speak )

Alt - I do see what you have found and I think it's a matter of our minds catching up to
A written definition versus a long held conceived idea.

(put it this way - it's times like these I'm glad I have a 4 foot child and not a 2 feeter :)

Bless all of you parents.

[Alty]

Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.

I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.

Altenweg out.

[Allheart]

Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.

I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.

Altenweg out.

You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.

And your children have a wondeful foundation... thanks to you.

[Alty]

You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.

And your children have a wondeful foundation...thanks to you.

Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.:)

I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.

Take care everyone.

[Allheart]

Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.:)

I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.

Take care everyone.

LOL and you keep encouragning that ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that's gross :) Too funny.

Children should be allowed to be children for as long as possible. My Mom and Dad had 5 children all together, (twin girls), so for the longest time, I thought they only did "it" 4 times... ewwwwwww gross :).

Your children will do wonderful... you teach that out of love... can't beat that!

[Alty]

My Mom's appendix ruptured when she was 18 and messed up her Fallopian tubes. She had minor surgery every month for 8 years in order to have me. They felt the need to tell me that they tried everyday, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day in order to have me. Too much information, LaLaLaLa, I can't hear you. We all like to believe our parents are sexless.

Were you one of the twin girls?

[Synnen]

Okay, now that we've all agreed to disagree on this whole mess, and it's getting off topic...

I'm closing this thread.

It will reopen ONLY with a PM to me from the OP.

[Synnen]

Hello Synnen!

I hope you're doing great! Well I'm writing because I was hoping you could re-open my topic for just another day or two. Some people expressed wanting to hear what I thought about the whole debate and I would like to share that information. More importantly I want to let people know why I asked that question because some may have the wrong idea about me. Thanks!

-Confused25

Reopened per PM from OP

[confused25]

Hello Everyone,

Well I asked Synnen to reopen the topic for another day or two because I wanted to share my final thoughts and the reason for me asking this particular question.

Remember, I am a male and 22 years old. With that said here we go. It was just a couple months ago when I had met the most wonderful girl to have ever walked into my life. She was amazing, we clicked very well, and ended up getting into a relationship. We were very passionate about one another and I had decided that I wanted her to be my first. I had finally met someone I wanted to lose my virginity to. She was so great and I was very happy.

Well about a month into our relationship I had my first sexual experience (oral sex) and it was great, which was made better because I had so much passion for her. We had oral sex a couple more times in the following weeks and I was sure that we would eventually have sexual intercourse when we were both ready. Unfortunately the relationship fell apart (the break up was bad and I am still trying to deal with it), which we really came at a shock because she was supposed to be the "one." Also, when I say the "one" I mean the one in every way, including sex.

So the relationship is over and with regards to my sexual experiences I felt that I was left hanging in midair. I had waited so long to find that special person to experience sexual intimacy with but it felt like I had only gotten half of that experience. It's like half of you is through the door, but you still have not fully walked through that door. Do you understand what I'm saying?

That is why I asked this initial question. I felt that I had only experienced half of what sex with someone special is, but not the whole thing. So I was unsure if I was still a virgin. Fortunately, after reading everyone's posts, I've decided that I am a virgin but that I'm also not a virgin :)

In my opinion I'm simply hanging in mid-air. So if I'm ever asked whether I am a virgin I will respond with "Well, this may sound weird, but I'm somewhere in the middle. I've had oral sex with one other person but I've never had sexual intercourse. I'm not sure how you feel or think about that, but that's the best and most comfortable way for me to describe it."

So there it is. I just wanted to explain myself because I got the idea that some people on this board had the impression that I was an oral sex king and that I was trying to manipulate the word virgin in order to trick people. I hope I cleared things up a bit.

Lastly, thanks for all the advice! I really appreciate it. You all are great!

[Allheart]

Confused -

If you are ever asked what you are - Be truthful and tell them,

You are one of the finest young men, have a heart of gold, and will bring great joy and true love to anyone's life that you become a part of. That's what you are :)

You make me smile and give me hope in tomorrow.

Please never change the person you are. Continue to be you. I hope your heart isn't hurting anymore and if it is... you will heal, and that is a promise.

To the very lucky girl out there who is just waiting for Confused25 to enter her life,. You better be good to him!! Or Auntie Allheart will need to have a word with you!

You make my heart happy!

Stay true to you.

Allheart

[N0help4u]

If you are seeing a guy and want to be with a special woman later my guess is she may be more angry at you for being with a same sex relationship than if you qualify as a virgin or not. Many girls would rather you been with other girls than A guy. Many girls think and feel this way so don't dismiss or taboo my reply since you want to know what a special lady might consider.

[Synnen]

If you are seeing a guy and want to be with a special woman later my guess is she may be more angry at you for being with a same sex relationship than if you qualify as a virgin or not. Many girls would rather you been with other girls than A guy. Many girls think and feel this way so don't dismiss or taboo my reply since you want to know what a special lady might consider.

I'm confused here... where did the seeing a guy thing come from?

[confused25]

NOhelp4U: Don't worry I'm completely heterosexual and will never consider a relationship with another male. Nothing against homosexuality, but its simply not my thing.

[N0help4u]

Oh sorry I misread I thought you said to Choux I am seeing a 22 year old male. Dysklexia set in you said See I am a 22 year old male

Well it is good to wait for that special lady as much as you can and if she is that special she will love you for where you and her are in your relationship and not digging up your past. Most girls now have a past themselves and it is petty to nit pick each others past if you really care about each other.

[purplewings]

Thanks for sharing a bit of your life here with us, Confused25. In my dating life, I've found it doesn't matter to me if a man has had sex with another woman or even a couple of them, BUT if it's more than 50, I'd be worried he could be a sex addict and unable to settle down with just one woman. I've heard people with multiple partners say they began to feel dirty all the time. Enjoy life, but save something for that real special one that's waiting for you. HuGS

[ScottGem]

So if I'm ever asked whether I am a virgin I will respond with "Well, this may sound weird, but I'm somewhere in the middle. I've had oral sex with one other person but I've never had sexual intercourse. I'm not sure how you feel or think about that, but that's the best and most comfortable way for me to describe it."

I would put it this way:

Yes I'm a virgin, but I'm not chaste, I have been intimate with a previous partner.

You do not and should not go into specifics unless asked. If asked how you can consider yourself a virgin, state that you have not engaged in sexual intercourse, just foreplay.