[NeedKarma]

I see this heading towards the Nature Vs Nurture debate; since the scientists haven't settled this one one way or another I doubt we will either. The consensus has always been that's a little of both.

[jillianleab]

inthebox, I just saw the rating you gave my other post, and wanted to comment on it. Yes the Korean war and the Vietnam war were fought over communism, but that's not the same thing as the Cold War. The Cold War was the US-Soviet arms race; no lives were lost, because no battles were fought. That's why it's called a "cold" war. It began as an effort to contain communism, but you cannot lump Vietnam and Korea in with it. They are different things. Also, please read my post more carefully. I never said a fetus wasn't alive, I said the law doesn't recognize it as a human with rights. Those are two very, very different things. Perhaps your moral/religious beliefs tell you a fetus is a human with human rights, but until the law agrees with you, my post is accurate.

DrJizzle Thank you for recognizing that my religious and spiritual beliefs are for a different thread. :) I don't know what determines if a child is "good" or "evil". Perhaps, if you believe in destiny, it's destiny. God? The devil? Heredity? I don't know. I just don't buy into "the devil made me do it!" or "video games and violent music made me do it!". I think there is something biological that made an individual predisposed to do it. Now, where did that predisposition come from? Well, that depends on your spiritual beliefs.

[inthebox]

Jilleanleab:


Cold War - MSN Encarta


Not only is the fetus alive from moral point of view but any high school biology book will tell you so. Just because it is "the Law " does not make it factually correct or morally correct. For example
Dred Scott states blacks were not citizens and could not vote.


This may be off topic but the opening question is about killing.





Grace and Peace

[NeedKarma]

Not only is the fetus alive from moral point of view ...

You write that as a fact when in fact it isn't.

[jillianleab]

inthebox the COLD WAR and the VIETNAM WAR and KOREAN WAR are still three different things! Yes, they were all fought over communism, yes they were related, but, from your link:

American journalist Walter Lippmann first popularized the term cold war in a 1947 book by that name. By using the term, Lippmann meant to suggest that relations between the USSR and its World War II allies (primarily the United States, Britain, and France) had deteriorated to the point of war without the occurrence of actual warfare.

So thank you for doing my legwork for me and allowing me to prove my point more effectively!

Again, no denial a fetus is alive - only that the law does not give it human rights. THAT is a FACT.

[startover22]

I say, getting back to the point, I won't do any killing if you don't and maybe we can start a chin reaction! Great conversation I think I have learned a bunch of great stuff on here! I talked to a guy that volunteers at our tiny little river library and he said he would show me around on how to get started with some history books. You guys better watch out, my debate team is going to work one over on you, just give me some tiime! Any suggestion which to read first? I will write them down and check them out! I really love the ones about each war although I do not know the names of each war and the means to have been started in the first place.

[jillianleab]

Good for you Startover! You can't go wrong with history books. Start where ever you are most interested; WWI will lead you to WWII, which will lead you to the Cold War, Korea and Vietnam. Of course, starting back at the American Revolution and the Civil War is interesting too. Then, of course there is world history as well... I recently picked up a book called; "The Century of Warfare" by Charles Messenger; it goes from 1900 to present day. Lots of good stuff in there to give you a starting point and figure out which wars and parts of history interest you the most.

[startover22]

Jillianleab, hey thanks, I really want to find Factual books rather than something I won't be able to tell if it is the truth or not. You know what I mean. I will write this down and get to the library. Mind you it may take a while to read it, I have 4 kids and a wild husband!

[jillianleab]

startover, see if your library has electronic resources as well. My public library system has an entire online database of articles, encyclopedias, etc free to use, all you need is a library card number. If you are busy, having this as an online resource is good because you can be reasonably sure of its accuracy, but don't have to worry about due dates and overdue fines. The book I mentioned is quite large - it's a coffee table book, so getting through it with kids might be hard!

Ok, threadjack over!

[Marily]

Because we ought to love one another, now why on earth do you want to kill someone you love?

[NeedKarma]

Didn't Abraham sacrifice his son because God told him to?

[Marily]

Abraham did not sacrifise his son, yes God did ask him to do it, and honestly... no one can question God.

[DrJ]

And what of those today that kill in the name of God or because God told them to? Of course, we just don't believe those people... but who are we to question? We don't know if God truly talks to them or not.

[startover22]

And what of those today that kill in the name of God or because God told them to? Of course, we just dont believe those people... but who are we to question? We dont know if God truly talks to them or not.

I would like a statement from one of them telling me the exact words God used. I think that is crap! God doesn't say kill people. He told Abraham to sacrifice his son, ONLY AS A TEST mind you. Not to actually do it.

[DrJ]

God was directly responsible for about 2,270,365 deaths in the Bible, not including such deaths as the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc.

Why would this end after the times of the Bible and not continue into today's world?

[startover22]

You got me there didn't you? 2,270,365? Really? Did God start the Plagues? Oh my I really do need to brush up on my bible skills, don't I. I am opting out. I need to know more to say more. Hugs, Start... I just don't think he is saying hey guys for the sake of ME I want you to go bomb people. Maybe cause I don't want to fathom it.

[michealb]

A running list of people god has killed according to the bible.
Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed?
I didn't come up with the list, I don't believe the list (I'm sure for other reasons than most on this board but we won't get into that) just showing where DrJizzle might have gotten his info from.

[startover22]

I almost want to take a couple of years off to go do my own research! Ok, I am done now!

[DrJ]

Its not a problem at all... I definitely don't claim to know a lot about the specifics of the Bible either. And I really don't want to give the impression that I agree with them or think that it actually IS God telling them to kill people... but who knows? :)

EDIT (after I saw the other posts)

Yes, that is where I got that current number. I don't know how accurate it is but I know its close. I have seen and heard 2,200,000+ from other sources as well

[startover22]

But who knows? Only God will actually know since they can't prove it. I still don't think that God is telling them to kill themselves or others. But what if? That has to stay a question I guess. I am taking a year off, hope my family understands! LOL