[tomder55]

Former Defense Secs Leon Panetta and Robert Gates ,Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff and former top US commander in Iraq ,Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis, the former commander of CENTCOM......all armchair Generals who have taken public positions against the current strategery .

[talaniman]

They are military generals and make MILITARY recommendations, and the prez makes decisions. Not the generals. They don't make policy, or political recommendations. YOU, ME, and Clete are armchair generals.

[paraclete]

Yep and we recommend various policy settings and have about as much influence as anyone

[paraclete]

At the risk of being thought alarmist there is something fundamentaly wrong with Islam when converts feel they have to demonstrate their religiousity in this manner

Oklahoma beheading: Fired US worker beheads colleague and stabs another before being shot - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

There is a high proportion of muslims committing acts of violence, why? And gross violence, atrocities. What is it about this religion that incites it's followers, however few to behave in this manner? Is it a magnet for the deranged or a religion that contains such paradox that a deranged person is attracted to violence?
We are for freedom of religion but how long can we support that view with this in our midst. Should people be free to believe things that are fundamentally opposed to the safety of the community

[talaniman]

I seriously doubt the proportion of bad Muslims is any higher than any other religion, if you can call insane behavior religious!

[paraclete]

Oh it's religious all right the same religious zeal that existed at the beginning of Islam, the same religious zeal that brought you the crusades and the inquisition, the same zeal that brought you nazism

[tomder55]

I seriously doubt the proportion of bad Muslims is any higher than any other religion, if you can call insane behavior religious!

Your kidding right ?

[talaniman]

So you don't recognize bad Christians, just bad Muslims, who you claim are all Muslims? Yeah there are no extremist violent Christians. Are you serious?

I won't defend ANY loonies, Christian, Muslim, or Jews, or Atheists. Why are you picking and choosing based on religion? Clete is highly prejudiced, are you?

Should we also equate all school shooters with white men too? Or the Klan, or Aryan Nation?

[tomder55]

what I don't see is armies of extremist Christians fighting for and occupying territory in the name of Christianity .

[talaniman]

Of course you don't. When Klansman take off their hoods, they are mayors, sheriffs, cops, city councilmen, state reps, good old boys on ranches, shopkeepers, or lest we forget cult leaders, and preachers. They probably go to church every Sunday too!

You never could see your own loonies, just everybody else's. ISIL has a large swath of territory the size of Maryland, but just in the south in America, there are plenty of small rural towns the good old boys have had for centuries. They will serve you cheesy grits every morning, and drag your black a$$ down a dark country road at night.

You need to get out more.

[tomder55]

you are stuck in the 50s

[talaniman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s#United_State

• American Freedom Party, formerly known as the American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacy.^{[28][29][30][31]} It was founded in 2010, and defines its principal mission as representing the political interests ofwhite Americans.^[32]

• Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has called Aryan Nations a "terrorist threat",^[33] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the US.^[34]
• Council of Conservative Citizens, is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white separatism.^[35]
• Creativity Movement, (formerly known as the World Church of the Creator) is a white supremacist politico organization that advocates the racialist religion, Creativity. Mainly religious rather than political, the radical Creativity Movement, founded by Ben Klassen in 1973, worships the white race itself rather than any deity, and advocates a radical form of white supremacism known asRAHOWA.
• EURO, is a white separatist organization in the United States. Led by former Louisiana state representative and presidential primary candidate David Duke, it was founded in 2000.^[36]
• Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as The Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present right-wing^[37] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy andnationalism. The Klan is classified as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.^[38] It is estimated to have between 5,000 and 8,000 members, split among dozens of different - and often warring - organizations that use the Klan name. as of 2012.^[39]

^{I told you to get out more.}

[tomder55]

your moral equivalent mindset exposes you .it is as nonsensical as the emperor comparing the atrocities of the Islamic State with the death of a teen in Ferguson by a police officer . But even if I accepted even a smidgen of your logic ;has there been over 20,000 terror attacks by Christian groups in the last decade ?

[talaniman]

Now you want a timeline of lunatic evil? It exists in every culture and religion tribe and nation. Overt, covert, what's the difference? Saying one is worse than another is what defies logic, and my point was you point a finger at others, and ignore/deny the four fingers pointing back at YOU. That's my logic.

Me, I acknowledge the lunatic evil exists everywhere, whether others deny it, or NOT! You pick a decade, like Christian loonies have gotten better. Quite the contrary.

[paraclete]

Affter what you have just put forward I'm glad I live here

[talaniman]

I just copy and pasted the facts Clete, but I submit to you the same point I made to Tom of your own fingerpointing. Rose colored glasses and selective hating doesn't change the fact of all humans everywhere have the same behaviors.

The Skinhead International: Australia

Limits of freedom of speech in Australia

"The national Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission released a report in 2004 documenting increased levels of discrimination against Arabs and Muslims in Australia following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack in the US and the terrorist bombing in Bali in October 2002. Muslim women were particular targets of physical violence carried out by strangers. Such incidents included having dogs set upon them, attempts to run over them, being spat at, having things thrown at them from cars and having their hajibs [sic] pulled off. The victims of such attacks often fear leaving their homes."

"However, harassment and discrimination has also been directed at people mistaken as Muslims, such as Christian Arabs and Sikh men wearing turbans. In one case an Egyptian Christian woman was knocked to the ground and needed hospital treatment after a man threw stones at her from a passing car." ₃

[tomder55]

oh brother ! That's why we are doomed to lose this ideological war . You think we are no different .

[talaniman]

Did you mean Christians and Muslim? No there is NO difference that I can see. Now if you mean good humans and bad ones, yes there is a huge difference.

Can you grasp that concept?

[paraclete]

let me try and grasp the concept you put forward Tal you think we are the same as you are, but we are not our ethos is different, subtle though it may be there are differences which mean we see things in an entirely different way. You think that muslims should be welcome in our society, but the only real race riots we have had here are when muslims rioted. The muslim populations we have here are the result of accepting refugees from the middle east and Afghanistan and some of the push factors have been american through their interventions there. They are not the result of our invasions of those places, so yes we have a view of what is happening that is different to you. What it means is we have to deal with the troubled edge of a displaced muslim society

Is there a difference between a society based on Christian values and one based on muslim values? There very obviously is, the muslim would let you got to hell in a hand cart and give you a push to help you on your way, the Christian would try to prevent that from happening. Christians are not immune to the stresses that the current situation places us in but muslims have taken a course to make themselves obvious and there is a consequence of an "in your face" attitude

[talaniman]

I didn't think you would get it Clete, but you have make the predictable excuses not to understand. Different ethos? Really? Your hate isn't from fear but false superiority. You don't want to factor the similarities, because the thought of being like "them" blows your whole mind. Too bad, you could use the freedom of not proving yourself right, by making "them" wrong. Probably easier for you to just hate.

That's lazy as hell though.