[OneDude79]

OK, thanks Wondergirl. I truly do appreciate it!

I'm not sure how she'll react though... it seems that when I do anything that shows I am less than confident about myself or our relationship, it has a negative effect albeit a mild one--we never fight at all, sometimes have mild disagreements but never fight.

[Wondergirl]

Read the book, don't hide it, tell her your online librarian recommended it, and go from there.

[OneDude79]

As a side note, and this might be somewhat relevant.

A couple posters mentioned this might be MY problem. Let me give you a quick history.

I couldn't get a date in high school to SAVE MY LIFE. At first, it was being too quiet, introverted, and lacking confidence.

Eventually I opened up some, but was still not "cool" - I knew it, I was odd looking, not part of the cool crowd, etc. I tried pretending to be confident but it didn't work, I think it just looked ridiculous, so girls either shot me down outright or "friend zoned" me. Aside from a girl I did some decent kissing with at 16, there wasn't much experience in the sexual or romantic arena.

In college I did a little better - finally at age 20 I had some sexual experience, fooled around, did some oral sex and manual stimulation with this one girl.

First long-term girlfriend was at age 22, she was 19 and more experienced. She said that she wished I could last longer with penetration but since I was good at oral and foreplay it worked out OK.

Second long term girlfriend ('01 - 03) belittled me all the time, even claimed her orgasms were never real (despite her turning red in the face and shaking her legs when she climaxed, something very hard to fake) and said I sucked in bed and was a "minute man". Despite the fact I could last a lot longer with her on top, she insisted that it was my problem and not her problem if I couldn't "use my d**k properly*.

Between here and girlfriend #3 I had a one night stand with a 41 year old woman that was something of a 19 second disaster if you get my drift.

Third long-term, ('03 - '05) we did everything but vaginal or anal sex. Otherwise seemed to do very well sexually, but had serious differences in lifestyle and values so it was doomed from the start.

My wife was my fourth long-term relationship. We started dating in '06.

All this history notwithstanding, I will take your suggestions and try them.

[Wondergirl]

I like you :) (anybody who writes and spells as well as you do must be okay) and look forward to hearing more from you. I hope your library has this book on shelf.

[OneDude79]

I like you :) (anybody who writes and spells as well as you do must be okay) and look forward to hearing more from you. I hope your library has this book on shelf.

I will keep you posted.

And for what its worth, in my 30s I finally feel pretty confident and happy in most aspects of life... just working on this part a little bit.

[Wondergirl]

I will keep you posted.

And for what its worth, in my 30s I finally feel pretty confident and happy in most aspects of life...just working on this part a little bit.

You're asking good questions and have come to a good site for input from some really great people. You'll be a winner in the end.

[OneDude79]

Back in the day I dated a lot - I was married, divorced, married, widowed, re-married. Interesting dating life. At any rate the most aggravating thing a man could ever do as far as I was concerned was ask - or, even worse, CONTINUE to ask, if I was satisified, if he could do something else to make sex better for me, was I satisified? Could he do anything else? Was I satisifed? I don't know if it's male ego (and I'm not saying this is your problem) but I was fine, absolutely fine. I didn't expect my head to spin around like I was possessed each and every time. Nagging about sex can ruin the mood.

First off, let me say that I AM taking your advice and Wondergirl's as well. I will not ask my wife for the time being about her satisfaction.

What I didn't point out yesterday, is that the issue with me, and probably the men you were with, was usage of the word "fine". Not "good" or "great" but "fine". I'm not saying I will continue to pester her with the question. I'm just explaining why I, and probably the men who you experienced this with, were not satisfied with the answer of "fine".

Fine can have a very positive meaning, such as "fine art" or "fine dining", or "that guy/girl is fine" (as in hot, attractive, etc).

Fine also can mean "adequate" or "Just OK" or maybe a little better than "mediocre".

In this context we would assume "fine" means "not bad enough to complain but not that great either".

If your friend went to a five-star restaurant 60 miles away, and you asked her how it was, and she said "great" - you might be likely to make the drive out there one night for dinner. If she said it was "fine" - you probably would be more hesitant. If she said "fine" that would imply that yeah, it tasted decent, and was edible, and certainly not "bad" but wasn't good enough to be called "good" or "great".

If you ask me how my day was and I say "fine" that means it was normal, average, neither bad nor great. Perhaps a little more on the side of good than bad, but not good enough to say "good".

So, if a woman tells a man the sex is "fine"... well, that leaves room for improvement, doesn't it? No man wants to be told he is "adequate" or "OK" or "average" in bed. We want to be great, excellent, etc. We, well, I (I can't really speak for other men) don't want to be lied to, either, hence my next point.

I understand not every woman is going to have her "head to spin around like I was possessed" every time as you say, but if it were GOOD sex, wouldn't you/she say
"it was GOOD" rather than "it was FINE"?

Fine just sounds so mediocre.

Now... if it's a situation where for her (and you in your case) it will never or rarely be better than "fine" no matter what her partner does, and no previous partner has been able to do better than "fine" either, well, shouldn't her partner be allowed to have this information, so as to understand that maybe there isn't much else he or anyone else can do?

Or maybe fine does mean "fine" in the other definition, but I doubt it, since in that context in other situations such as the examples I gave, it doesn't generally mean that.

[Wondergirl]

I will not ask my wife for the time being about her satisfaction.

Why do you have to be rated on your performance? You mentioned something earlier about women who are unsatisfied tend to stray. Is that a concern?

[OneDude79]

Why do you have to be rated on your performance? You mentioned something earlier about women who are unsatisfied tend to stray. Is that a concern?

For her, probably not.

I just don't like the thought that I'm mediocre and she's never going to attempt to allow me to get better. I'm not saying that I am. But the word "fine" doesn't conjure up images if a highly satisfied wife. "Good" might. "Great" might. "Fine" no.

Either she doesn't care because sex doesn't matter much, or she doesn't get much pleasure out of it with anyone at any time, or she is actually having an amazing time but just doesn't show her enthusiasm.

In most areas of life she is low key. She's not passionate or emotional much one way. I mean she is pleasant, has moods like anyone, and is a happy person, she's just not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO EXCITED" type for most things except sometimes vacations or fun trips, things for the kids, etc. She also is not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO PISSED" type if she is mad. She rarely yells in anger or shreiks in excitement.

In other words, she is mild-mannered. So, it might be this that is part of how she reacts during sex, she's enjoying herself just fine and that's just how she expresses it.

However, most women I know/know of who aren't all that into the sex itself, at least enjoy kissing, making out, the foreplay stuff. She just kind of lays there. She doesn't even seem to like kissing.

So either it's me, or, this is just how she is, but she's perfectly happy with it and me, and I need to just accept it. Accepting it is fine as long as I can be assured that it's not something she is secretly hoping I can improve.

As far as at least getting her more in the mood and receptive to sex and intimacy, I am going to the library today and trying your other ideas. :)

[Wondergirl]

Do you know her ethnic heritage? What is yours?

[OneDude79]

Do you know her ethnic heritage? What is yours?

We're both White Americans of Italian/Irish and some German ancestry. Our ethnic backgrounds are smiliar but I have more Italian than she does.

[OneDude79]

We're both White Americans of Italian/Irish and some German ancestry. Our ethnic backgrounds are smiliar but I have more Italian than she does.

Why, by the way?

[Cat1864]

She has had issues with depression before.

What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

[OneDude79]

What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

She was on medication and therapy about 10 years ago and came out of it. I have told her that I'm concerned she might slip back in and she appreciates the concern, and says she worries too.

However, to a point she's been this way as long as I've known her. Even when sex was more frequent, she still was rather, let's say, "unenthusiastic" in bed. Part of that might well just be her personality.

[OneDude79]

What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

If she does need meds again, at least I'll know why she has no libido... since those things kill whatever is left.

Again - I can deal with that. I want to make sure she is happy, healthy, and satisfied. :)

[Wondergirl]

Why, by the way?

During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

[OneDude79]

During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

OK, I see what you're saying. When you kiss do you just kind of sit there and not really move your lips much, and back off after less than 20 seconds?

[OneDude79]

OK, I see what you're saying. When you kiss do you just kinda sit there and not really move your lips much, and back off after less than 20 seconds?

I wish there was an "edit" feature here. Anyway, that's what she does. There is no passion.

She does have more northern European and Central European in her blood than I do.

[OneDude79]

During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

OK, well let me ask more specifically. Did you at least think TO YOURSELF that the guy was good or bad at kissing?

She's with me after all this time, obviously I'm "good enough" to meet her standards in that area.

[Wondergirl]

She was on medication and therapy about 10 years ago and came out of it. I have told her that I'm concerned she might slip back in and she appreciates the concern, and says she worries too.

That's another good reason to find a counselor -- counseling for your concerns about her satisfaction with you but also (a different counselor) for her as to how she is dealing with life.