[tomder55]

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate . But you are right that it was the teachers present who were responsible for insuring it did not happen. That is why the school is being sued and not the Mosque.
Commissioner Wong said teachers were told students shouldn’t have been allowed to pray.

“We’re giving better guidance to our teachers. I don’t know if they’ll do [the field trip] differently but it won’t necessarily be because of this,”....“I support the field trip, I support them being able to go to observe; I do think allowing kids to participate in the prayer crossed the line.”

[excon]

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.

Hello my UN-liberal friends:

Calling a white guy, a white guy isn't racism. Calling brown people, brown, or even (heaven forbid), black, isn't racism either...

If only you guys could get a grip in what racism IS, maybe you could help stamp it out. Here's an example of racism on FOX... Interestingly, Republican Al D'Amato goes postal on the guy...

excon

[Wondergirl]

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate .

The hosts were brown; the guests were white. Look at the video. Had The Blue Men Group been there, I would have mentioned them by color too.

The students and chaperones were guests. Had there been baklava handed out, would the students have wanted some? Same for the experience of praying -- unlike in Western religions, the pray-er has to get down on all fours, lean forward with forehead touching the floor, etc. etc. etc. Sounds like a fun thing to try. And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.

[tomder55]

I've been to the D'Amato post office.

Here's a good example of a racist comment.
YouTube - Joe Biden's racist slip

[tomder55]

And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.

And that would've been equally inappropriate. The only real difference is the reaction if it had happened in a church would've garnered all types of MSM condemnation . In this case it's dismissed as ' isn't no big thing'.

[Wondergirl]

And that would've been equally inappropriate.

True, but it's what religious leaders of all faiths do -- not to proselytize but to help others understand and experience. The leaders of this student group did not have any imagination or a proper discussion with the Muslims as to what would happen during the tour. I was a teacher and took/went with many groups on field trips. The leaders have to think outside the box to imagine all sorts of scenarios and prepare for them. These mosque visitors did an abysmal job of preparing.

[speechlesstx]

If they are exercising their rights, what's to report? I don't get it.

Exactly. Think about it.

[Just_Another_Lemming]

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ? Create a scene in the Mosque ? Physically prevent the students from participating ?

No, of course she wasn't supposed to create a scene. I actually answered that in my previous post:

Please give some thought to this: If one of the 5 children was hers don't you think she would have grabbed him/her and kept them from joining in the prayer service? Wouldn't you if the child was yours? I certainly would. And, I would expect you as another parent to quietly and kindly tell the lady who was conducting the tour that she is entitled to her beliefs but this is considered a learning experience, not a participating one, and immediately hustle those children out of there.

In my experience, most kids still have a tendency to listen to & follow the direction of their friends' parents more than their own parents or their teachers. She wasn't in a position where she had to deal with this alone. With 200 children on the tour, there were more than just a couple of chaperones. Other parents and teachers were on the tour. I am left wondering why she didn't flag down at least one other adult, point out what was going on, and request their help to stop it from going any further.

The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing. I am not really interested in a possible motive for the taping other than the fact that one of the chaperone's had a camera available to record this so the denials could be nipped in the bud.

I agree the purpose was to observe. That is why I have such a hard time understanding why she chose to stand idly by during the entire "indoctrination" talk/speech the guide was giving. My point is, from these articles and the clips we see, it appears she made the decision to wait it out and videotape the students praying rather than, as soon as she heard what the mosque rep was saying, grab the attention of other chaperones/teachers, tell them what was going on and politely interrupt the tour guide prior to the children even given the opportunity to consider participating. Honestly, I don't have a problem with her videotaping the tour. As a matter of fact, that video camera was the perfect tool to use while this "indoctrination" was taking place. She could have chosen to use it while politely attempting to stop the coercion of the children. If the guide knew she was being taped, she might have backed off. It would have placed on record that she (Mom) attempted to stop the nonsense. But it appears from the reports & her tape that she didn't. My question to her is, why? It will be interesting to see if any other parent sues the school and doesn't include her in the lawsuit. It will also be interesting to see how far this lawsuit of hers will go and what the result will be.

[tomder55]

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other similar field trips that presumable were not taped ,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is... and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

[excon]

I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

Hello again, tom:

When I was a young and impressionable boy scout, my very Christian scout leader made us go to church when we were on a weekend camping trip. I don't know what kind of church is was, exactly, but when everybody else went up to receive holy communion, I did too.

I can assure you, it didn't sway me.

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I don't know where that comes from.

Oh, if you listen to Newt, you'd believe it... But, he just wants to scare you.

excon

[tomder55]

Newt is fat Elvis . I don't take him seriously.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...BMlL38B8UvAK6a
I love it that now you think this religious exposure isn't no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous position on the subject.

Don't worry . Soon if the President has his way ,all reference to God will be scrubbed from the Declaration of Independence.

[Wondergirl]

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

It never should have happened, and once it did, it should have been stopped. Both were the fault of the white guys.

and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips?

I'm guessing those "vulnerable boys" forgot about it the minute they got back on the bus. Being a Muslim is an awful lot of work.

[excon]

I love it that now you think this religious exposure aint no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous postion on the subject.

Hello again, tom:

I'm not quite sure where I said it "ain't no big thing". I have NOT changed my mind. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for a school to arrange a visit to a mosque.

excon

[Wondergirl]

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I dunno where that comes from.

Isn't that what homosexuals are supposedly doing to our youth -- proselytizing and sucking them in? And who is saying all this stuff is happening??

[smoothy]

The signs of Sharia in Dearborn Michigan

Its already happening in Dearborn Michigan. The Muslims Imposing Sharia on the non-muslims. Where is the ACLU... nowhere around is the answer.

[Just_Another_Lemming]

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:

The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other simular field trips that presumable were not taped,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occurred.? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occurred before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page

[tomder55]

they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.

The video shows a different story even if they choose to call it something else.

I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents?

It happens more often than you think. There are specific links I could provide . Suffice it to say that they are about culturally sensitive issues that would hopelessly divert this thred off track .

[smoothy]

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul...

Sharia Law: Effects on and in America - by JD Russell - Helium

[smoothy]

I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:

I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occured. ???? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occured before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page

It doesn't matter if the parrents approved the trip or not... it was done on public school hours using public school equipment.

If Public school students aren't allowed to properly celibrate Christmas... a Christian Holiday and mention Christ... then exactly by what stretch of the imagination is it somehow fine to drag kids that should be learning important things to an Islamic Mosque, I'm still waiting to hear about the follow up trips to a Catholic Cathedral, A Jewish Temple, and a Protestant church. Oh right... you aren't allowed to do THAT in a public school.

[excon]

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul....

Hello again, smoothy:

--------------
"The dangerous plan to bring Sharia Law to America by various Radical Islamic Groups residing in America under the guise and use of democracy laws is slowly becoming a reality.

The assault on the American democratic way of life is being carried out right now on America's door step.

Recently, Somali taxi cab drivers of Islamic faith adhering to Sharia Law in Minneapolis-ST Paul refused to transport passengers from the airport because the passengers were carrying unopened bottles of liquor. This religious act of refusal is the first public shot across the bow in America as the global plan to compel America and the rest of the world to submit to Islam enters a new phase."
------------------------------------

That's it?? Cab drivers?? And, you're SCARED?? Dude!

You said in your post it's been "tried"... Nobody said, certainly not me, that Muslims aren't going to TRY to change the laws... EVERY group in America wants to CHANGE a law to suit themselves... What's new about that??

All I've said, and I STILL say it, is that our Constitution can withstand such assaults. My question for you, is why you think it won't.

excon