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morgaine300 · Oct 12, 2009, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by artlady

You have to understand that it is not easy for an woman to leave her abuser.

Oh trust me, I do understand that. I've never been abused myself, but I fully understand the concept of loving someone and how difficult it can be to get past the love and the need to be with someone (and the feeling that you deserve the abuse), and try to move your life somewhere else That's why I so understand the concept of "not being ready." I know that one a little too well.

But my mom also had a good friend who worked for a batter women's shelter. I'm not much into having sympathy for those who have gotten themselves into their own ruts, but this was something I had a lot of sympathy for. Partially because of the amount of emotion it involved, partially because there's usually low self esteem involved (as opposed to laziness or stupidity or whatever)... and I also really felt for those who finally found the courage to pick up their kids and get the heck out. I knew it took courage and those were scared and lonely women. Unfortunately some would go back still, but I had to really admire the ones who had the guts to get out. (That goes for you too! :))

My mom used to donate to them, you know, old clothes and that type of thing. And we heard lots of stories. The friend who volunteered there eventually even had to get out herself cause it just got to her emotionally so much she couldn't be there anymore.

And actually, even doing private tutoring like I do, I see a lot of low self esteem in that. I also had it myself once upon a time. It didn't get me abused, but I did think I was very stupid and couldn't do anything. So I guess I have a special empathy for people who seem to think they're worthless.

fabulosity · Oct 12, 2009, 02:30 AM

Deleted for chat/texr not content, Edit please.

Cat1864 · Oct 12, 2009, 05:38 AM

Imessedup, I haven't given up either. Morgaine has expressed so well my feelings about your posts. I sincerely hope you listen to artlady and her experience.

If you take nothing else from this site, let it be that there are people who value you as a person and will do what they can to give you the mental and emotional support that you need. Your life and well-being are worth so much more than I think you believe at this time.

What scares me is that he has you thinking that you deserve to be punished to the point where you are doing things to get that response. You didn't deserve it before you cheated and you don't now. As I said before, using his fists to punish yourself for anything that you feel you should be punished for is not an acceptable way to exist.

No one takes your situation lightly. No one thinks that it will be easy for you to change what you have come to know as your world. However, I think it is clear that we want to see you in a better mind-set and safer physical location before something irreversible happens.

smoothy · Oct 12, 2009, 07:28 AM

How old are both of you... neither of you seem to have the maturity to be living on your own yet... him because of his stupid, illegal and unjustifiable inability to control his anger... and you for insisting to staying in a situation most people would walk away from.

If you won't wake up and show the maturity to get far away from this guy... AND get a restraining order filed against him... then at least set up a trust fund for the kid, and get a life insurance policy with the benificiary being that trust fund... Because this guy will kill you some day and that kids going to need that money.

s_cianci · Oct 12, 2009, 08:22 AM

Your boyfriend's anger is justifiable. But his abuse isn't. If he were a real man, he'd simply click his heels and walk away from you without the abuse and the drama. As it is, this isn't a healthy situation all around. I think you and your boyfriend are doomed. If he won't break it off, then you need to ; from a distance if you're afraid of his reaction and that it might turn physical.

morgaine300 · Oct 12, 2009, 10:33 PM

fabulosity, she's not "crazy." People are human and they don't always do what is best for them, because emotions are involved and in this case brainwashing and all sorts of stuff. It's like asking a smoker to "just stop" when there's an addiction involved. I suspect this goes back to childhood to get that kind of low self-worth, and it can't be fixed overnight just cause you say so. I doubt being called crazy is helping her any.

And smoothy, I don't think there's anything to do with maturity going on here. I do believe they aren't all that old, but even older adults go through this -- it's because they have issues going on, not necessarily because they're immature. The guy needs help too - serious help, not just "growing up." Even immature guys don't go around hitting girls.

Cat1864 · Oct 13, 2009, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Your boyfriend's anger is justifiable.

A bit of clarification: His anger over the "cheating" is justifiable. His anger over your past (or lack of it) is not. Never has been. Never will be. The abuse... well, we've covered that.

What did the latest pregnancy test say?

smoothy · Oct 13, 2009, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by morgaine300

And smoothy, I don't think there's anything to do with maturity going on here. I do believe they aren't all that old, but even older adults go through this -- it's because they have issues going on, not necessarily because they're immature. The guy needs help too - serious help, not just "growing up." Even immature guys don't go around hitting girls.

I do think maturity does have a lot to do with this... older people can be very immature too. Its just that younger people are more prone to this sort of stupidity if for no better reason than lack of life experience.

She is an adult... she is responsible for her own life. A Mature person will get far away from a situation that threatens their physical well being or life. And if she still decides to stay with an abuser... then she shares in the responsibility if he kills the yet unborn child during a beating.

She may not care about her own well being... which is clear by her sticking around... but as a future mom she should care a lot more about her child.

Homegirl 50 · Oct 13, 2009, 07:28 AM

There are plenty of over 40 and 50 couples dealing with spousal abuse. This not a maturity problem it is an emotional and criminal problem.
This particular couple may be young but there are older men who are beating their wives and those older women are really feeling hopeless because a lot of them may have grown up in an era when men "had the right" to do this.

JudyKayTee · Oct 13, 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

There are plenty of over 40 and 50 couples dealing with spousal abuse. This not a maturity problem it is an emotional and criminal problem.
This particular couple may be young but there are older men who are beating their wives and those older women are really feeling hopeless because a lot of them may have grown up in an era when men "had the right" to do this.

I think everyone - not just picking on you - is confusing age and maturity. These are two very different things.

I've seen very immature 50 year olds and very mature 18 year olds.

morgaine300 · Oct 13, 2009, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I think everyone - not just picking on you - is confusing age and maturity. These are two very different things.

I'm not confusing them. By saying that older men are abusers, I'm not meaning that I assume they are mature -- I know better. I only said that cause I was arguing against the idea that this issue exists because they're young and immature. I'm saying that I don't think this type of issue is a maturity issue. It's like saying someone's an alcoholic because they're too immature to deal with it.

JudyKayTee · Oct 13, 2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by morgaine300

I'm not confusing them. By saying that older men are abusers, I'm not meaning that I assume they are mature -- I know better. I only said that cause I was arguing against the idea that this issue exists because they're young and immature. I'm saying that I don't think this type of issue is a maturity issue. It's like saying someone's an alcoholic because they're too immature to deal with it.

You believe abusers are addicted or have an illness, both of which can be the situation with alcoholics - ?

smoothy · Oct 13, 2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by morgaine300

I'm not confusing them. By saying that older men are abusers, I'm not meaning that I assume they are mature -- I know better. I only said that cause I was arguing against the idea that this issue exists because they're young and immature. I'm saying that I don't think this type of issue is a maturity issue. It's like saying someone's an alcoholic because they're too immature to deal with it.

Being immature has nothing to do with actual physical age in this case... it has everything to do with emotional development... and neither the poster nor her boyfriend were displaying maturity. He by his actions, and her for putting up with them.

And Young people ARE more likely to think they have to put up with abuse than older people are. That's just how life experience works. Less experienced people might tend to think this is a normal part of a relationship when it isn't.

morgaine300 · Oct 14, 2009, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

You believe abusers are addicted or have an illness, both of which can be the situation with alcoholics - ?

Why does everyone take my analogies so darn literally all the time? I was merely making the analogy that having an uncontrollable problem is not necessarily related to one's maturity level.

But if you want to put it that way, then yeah, in a way an abuser does have an illness. And since so far everyone has done nothing but misintepret everything I've said since this maturity issue came up, I'll say up front NOT to misintepret that to mean that it's therefore not his fault. People have this funny habit of deciding that calling something an "illness" means it's excusable somehow, and I sure as heck don't mean that at all.

I'm not quite sure why everyone's having such an issue that I don't think this is necessarily related (on either party's side) to being immature.

smoothy · Oct 14, 2009, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by morgaine300

Why does everyone take my analogies so darn literally all the time?? I was merely making the analogy that having an uncontrollable problem is not necessarily related to one's maturity level.

But if you want to put it that way, then yeah, in a way an abuser does have an illness. And since so far everyone has done nothing but misintepret everything I've said since this maturity issue came up, I'll say up front NOT to misintepret that to mean that it's therefore not his fault. People have this funny habit of deciding that calling something an "illness" means it's excusable somehow, and I sure as heck don't mean that at all.

I'm not quite sure why everyone's having such an issue that I don't think this is necessarily related (on either party's side) to being immature.

Ummm how can whooping up on a woman be misinterpreted... or her choosing to stay with a guy who is whooping up on her. Particularly when they are young and somehow think its something ANYONE has to put up with in a relationship when its not.

Mature people know better... and as I have said repeatedly, maturity doesn't necessarily increase with chronological age.

And the reasons a 20's something girl would have for putting up with abuse aren't going to be the same as a 60 year old woman who never worked a day in her life might have.

Periodic arguements are part of relationships....periodic beatings aren't.

People with maturity talk about their issues with each other... they don't beat the other into submission... nor do they submit to that either.

Small Children try to force their will onto others.