[Enigma1999]

And just to add to what Alty has said.

I really hope that Caylee has no idea what happened. I hope that she doesn't know or remember that her Mother, Casey, murdered her only Daughter.

[Alty]

And just to add to what Alty has said.

I really hope that Caylee has no idea what happend. I hope that she doesn't know or remember that her Mother, Casey, murdered her only Daughter.

That's my hope too. It's bad enough that we know that she did it.

Something I want to add.

Many of you know that our dog Indy is old, 16 years, and that I've been wanting to put him down for a while. He can barely walk, he has trouble breathing, etc. etc. He's just really old.

Well, hubbies cousin just started a new business, he's cremating pets. So I called him, asked how much he charged. He said that for us, family, it would be free, and we'd get the ashes back in an urn.

So I told him that we're likely going to do this in the next month, I just have to save the money, make the appointment, and go through with it. This is over a year of hubby and I going back and forth, hoping not to make the decision.

Well, hubbies cousin is a hunter, and a pet lover. He's one of those men that will take his sick dog into the woods, and put a bullet in his brain. Quick, painless, done.

So, he offered to do that with Indy. My response. NO! I can't. First, I want to be there with him, I want to hold him, I want his last memories to be of me and hubby loving him, being there with him until the end. I don't want his last image to be of a shotgun aimed at his head, no loved ones around. I can't be there for that. I couldn't watch that. It would kill me.

Having said that, and knowing that Indy would likely not even see the shotgun, or notice that R and I aren't there, and the fact that this is my dog, and yes, he's my family, someone I love, but, he's not my child, he's my dog, I can only hope that a child, a human being, a young person that knows mommy, sees and hears everything, doesn't know that her mother ended her life. I only hope she went to sleep and doesn't know anything else.

Let's all hope that at least to Caylee, Casey is innocent, even though we all know differently. Let's hope that Caylee died not knowing what a monster her mother is.

[southamerica]

Check out this story. I'm not sure if this is appropriate to post in this thread, but it totally made me think about all of this.

[Alty]

Check out this story. I'm not sure if this is appropriate to post in this thread, but it totally made me think about all of this.

Obviously the media had no influence on Casey's trial. If it had, she'd rot in jail.

[southamerica]

Obviously the media had no influence on Casey's trial. If it had, she'd rot in jail.

I know, this article was on June 24th... I wonder how the defense attorney feels now?

I've been extremely upset over this Caylee thing. And it only reminds me that murders go unjustified all the time. We aren't omniscient, but we should be.

And we need more vigilantes.

[Aurora_Bell]

IT's a horrible story of murder and how the justice system has failed this one little girl. You can say there is nothing wrong with the American justice system, but where is the justice for this one little girl? This little girl who's mother has mocked her lost innocence. There is nothing right or fair about this. I am a thousand miles away and my heart breaks for this poor little girl. The questions we all want answered but will never have. If no Zanny existed, then where was poor Caylee? I can only imagine he neglect and sadness this little girl endured for her short two years of life. Casey had many options, murder should not have even crossed her mind.

[twinkiedooter]

I am sick at heart over this misguided justice system we have in this country. People have been convicted on less than this case presented. Still wondering what happened. I was not in the courtroom listening each day so I could not tell who said what. Could not force myself to watch this case on Court TV as it infuriated me so much. And now her mom goes essentially free. I am sure that there will be a book written by a good author like Ann Rule which will help me understand what happened and who dropped the ball.

It makes all the other would be murders think they can get away with murdering their family members.

What has this country come to?

{Sadly shakes her head}

[Alty]

Well, Casey gets out Next Sunday. She already has one offer of 1 million dollars to appear in an interview. She'll be rich.

So, what lesson have we taught the public? If you want to become a millionaire, murder your child, find a jury of 12 people that can't see the truth, when 2/3 of the country thinks you're guilty, be found innocent, then live free of the child that you didn't want, and rake in the dough.

The new American way. Why work when killing your child will make you rich? :( :( :(

[Wondergirl]

be found innocent

She was not found to be innocent.

[Fr_Chuck]

I think along with some of the media, that the jury was wanting or expecting something out of CSI and other TV crime shows, they show how you can take a 20 year old dead body and find DNA, fingerprints and more.

Of course the same CSI rep, is the person in the field, then drives to the lab with the evidence and even goes to testify in court.

[Alty]

She was not found to be innocent.

She was found guilty of lying to police. But that's the only thing she was found guilty of.

She was found not guilty of murdering her child. Not guilty is innocent. Even if the jury doesn't believe she was completely innocent, they still set her free by delivering a not guilty verdict.

She serves another week and a day in jail. Not a just sentence for killing your child, IMO.

[Fr_Chuck]

Not really, not guilty does not mean they are innocent, it only means there was not enough evidence to convict.
This difference is normally noted in legal study.

[Alty]

I think along with some of the media, that the jury was wanting or expecting something out of CSI and other TV crime shows, they show how you can take a 20 year old dead body and find DNA, fingerprints and more.

Of course the same CSI rep, is the person in the field, then drives to the lab with the evidence and even goes to testify in court.

Juror #3 was interviewed on TV, she said that in order to convict they expected to here a motive, how the child was killed, and where. She wanted witnesses to the crime, DNA, fingerprints.

Thank you television.

This baby was thrown away like trash in an area that was underwater for months. All trace evidence was washed away. Crimes rarely have witnesses, and witness testimony is not desirable in a case because witnesses are extremely unreliable.

I guess I have just one question for the jury. If the child wasn't murdered, what other reasonable scenario can they come up with that explains all the evidence? If they can't think of one, well, where's the reasonable doubt?

[Alty]

Not really, not guilty does not mean they are innocent, it only means there was not enough evidence to convict.
This difference is normally noted in legal study.

The way I look at it is Casey is free. She's walking away on 4 counts of lying to police with time served and time off for good behavior.

I agree, not guilty doesn't mean innocent, but then, if it isn't an innocent verdict, then where is the justice?

[Fr_Chuck]

Plus most likely there will be no further police investigation, the police will still assume she did it and not really look for anyone else.

[Wondergirl]

I guess I have just one question for the jury. If the child wasn't murdered

You KNOW absolutely that Casey killed Caylee, right?

[Alty]

You KNOW absolutely that Casey killed Caylee, right?

Of course I don't. I wasn't there.

The evidence in the case is overwhelming. No other scenario makes sense. If you actually view all the evidence, the behavior of Casey during the 31 days her daughter was supposedly missing (when she was in fact dead, lying in the woods and Casey knew that), the partying, the duct tape, the 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, the chloroform found at the scene, the duct tape over the babies mouth and nose, the heart sticker put on the duct tape, body stuffed in two garbage bags and a laundry bag, the smell of decomposition found in the trunk of Casey's car which two separate cadaver dogs hit on, the searches for how to break a neck, etc. etc. etc. etc.

I have to ask, what other reasonable scenario is there?

The medical examiner was asked how many accidental drownings go unreported (Casey's defense, after sitting in jail for 3 years, insisting that her daughter was kidnapped by a made up person), and the ME said that 100% of accidental drownings are reported.

That's more reliable then birth control.

So, we're to believe that Casey sat in jail for 3 years, claimed her daughter was kidnapped, when she actually drowned in the pool?

So why the duct tape, the chloroform, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, dumping the body like trash in a wooded area used by locals to dump trash, close to her home? Why hide it for 31 days while living it up?

WG, if you have another scenario to explain how this child died, I'd love to hear it.

[Wondergirl]

Of course I don't. I wasn't there.

Neither were the jurors. And the prosecution could not even give conclusive evidence that Caylee had been killed by a human hand. She may have really drowned accidentally. There was no DNA evidence, no eyewitness, no confession, no body to autopsy. That's why all seventeen jurors (12 + the 5 alternates) to a person, with tears in their eyes, had to return a verdict of "not guilty" -- "not proven" -- "I don't know."

The jurors did not hear commentators ruminate, did not read the newspapers, did not even talk with each other or others involved in the trial during the trial. It was only during deliberation that they finally were able to discuss the case. All seventeen had no choice but to return a verdict of "not guilty."

[Alty]

Neither were the jurors. And the prosecution could not even give conclusive evidence that Caylee had been killed by a human hand. She may have really drowned accidentally. There was no DNA evidence, no eyewitness, no confession, no body to autopsy. That's why all seventeen jurors (12 + the 5 alternates) to a person, with tears in their eyes, had to return a verdict of "not guilty" -- "not proven" -- "I don't know."

The jurors did not hear commentators ruminate, did not read the newspapers, did not even talk with each other or others involved in the trial during the trial. It was only during deliberation that they finally were able to discuss the case. All seventeen had no choice but to return a verdict of "not guilty."

WG, there was an autopsy. The cause of death couldn't be determined. But, the Medical Examiner did say that she has never seen an accidental drowning go unreported. When asked on the stand how many accidental drownings are reported, she said 100%. That doesn't leave any wiggle room.

That same M.E. said that never in her many years as a medical examiner has she seen an accidental drowning where the child's mouth and nose were duct taped, the baby was wrapped in a blanket, stuffed into two garbage bags, a laundry bag, and then tossed away like garbage.

When asked for her professional opinion, she said that she wouldn't hesitate in saying that the cause of death was murder. So, who murdered her if not Casey?

A strand of Caylee's hair was found in the trunk of Casey's car. It had post mortem banding on it. In other words, that hair came from a dead body.

When you said that the jurors weren't there when Casey died, I have to ask. Is that what it would take? Is that the evidence needed? If so, then many murders will walk free, because there's very rarely a witness to the crime.

This is real life, not TV. You won't be lucky and get a video of the person killing the other person. There isn't always DNA. There aren't always fingerprints. There's very rarely witnesses. This is real life, and the case was damning, and still she was found not guilty of murder.

My thought, the jury wasn't instructed on what reasonable doubt is, because there is no reasonable doubt. The jury expected the video, the DNA, the fingerprints, etc. etc. They didn't understand that that's not the norm, that the way the body was placed, the fact that that area was under water for months, made all that evidence impossible to gather.

The presence of chloroform, a decomposing body, in the trunk of Casey's car, the bags, all the things I've mentioned over and over again. That's clear evidence to murder. It's not at all conducive to an accident.

So I ask again, if not murder, what's a reasonable scenario to what happened.

Remember, George was at work, as was Cindy. Casey was alone with Caylee. So, how did this baby die and end up tossed away like trash in the woods?

[Wondergirl]

The cause of death couldn't be determined.

Thus the verdict. It doesn't matter a hill of beans what the ME says or thinks.

A strand of Caylee's hair was found in the trunk of Casey's car. It had post mortem banding on it. In other words, that hair came from a dead body.

And maybe Caylee drowned accidentally and Casey panicked. Remember, she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

So, how did this baby die and end up tossed away like trash in the woods?

Again, she may have drowned accidentally and Casey panicked.