[paraclete]

Whose propganda are you sniffing, WMD requires organisation it requires government

[tomder55]

1. The rebels had control of areas with stockpiles
2. the Syrian civil war is rapidly resembling the Spanish Civil war with all it's outside interventions .

Again ;what purpose would it serve for Assad to use chemical weapons against kids when he's winnning the war ? It would be a propaganda victory for the rebels however given the fact that a UN mission is arriving in the country .

The last time it was alleged ,the world took the report at face value even as the UN investigation team leader, Carla del Ponte in May stated there was evidence the rebels had used chemical agents, including Sarin gas. So the pattern has been established .

There are of course cut throats in the conflict who routinely attack civilians and children . For a time the al Nusra Front held 200 Kurds hostage at Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ain .There were reports of children being decapitated there before the Kurds retook the towns .

[talaniman]

I wouldn't trust either side at the moment and sadly many more innocents will die, but rushing in and investing American lives is not the smart thing to do. It's a fact that the rebels are as capable of gassing people as Assad is.

[smoothy]

Assad probibly did it... but I'm also leary of some of the rebel groups... at least one has ties to Al Queda and other anti-american groups.

[tomder55]

The red line has been crossed twice now and American troops are massed on the Syrian /Jordanian border . What better wag the dog moment !

According to the Slimes ;It was not clear whether the team sent to Syria by the United Nations would be able to investigate the new reported attacks. The team arrived Sunday after months of negotiations with the Syrian government and is authorized to visit only three predetermined sites
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/wo...anted=all&_r=0
So what we are supposed to believe is that while a UN team is on the ground investigating chemical attacks ,the Assad regime launched one .

[talaniman]

Both sides are probably guilty of many atrocities.

[paraclete]

the red line has been crossed twice now and American troops are massed on the Syrian /Jordanian border . What better wag the dog moment !

According to the Slimes ;It was not clear whether the team sent to Syria by the United Nations would be able to investigate the new reported attacks. The team arrived Sunday after months of negotiations with the Syrian government and is authorized to visit only three predetermined sites
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/wo...anted=all&_r=0
So what we are supposed to believe is that while a UN team is on the ground investigating chemical attacks ,the Assad regime launched one .

We have to come to the point here, it doesn't matter who did it, fact is civilian populations are at risk and if that imagimary red line has been crossed than it is up to the world to deal with it and sanctions aren't going to cut it, someone has to get their hands dirty, seeing as Turkey is on one border sounds like a job for NATO

[talaniman]

China and Russia should be at the forefront of this debacle, should have been long ago.

[tomder55]

You think the Ruskies aren't ?

[smoothy]

They got these from both Russia AND Saddam Hussein. The Easter Bunny didn't bring them.

[paraclete]

China and Russia should be at the forefront of this debacle, should have been long ago.

They don't get their hands dirty, just have someoneelse do their work for them, no, if you want it to stop you will need to do something but you will need far more than a few hundred troops, as soon as you crossed the border every hand would be against you. Where are all those clandestine operators you are famous for or has Benghazi broke a spoke in their wheel

[tomder55]

Here is the deal with Russia and China. Assad is Russia's ally . The Russians wish it weren't so ,but they have no choice. Their access to the Mediterranean is from the port of Tartus. They also have Iran on their border and would prefer that the Iranians don't stir up the huge Russian Muslim population. They would work with us for a transition away from Assad ,but they have as many concerns about radical jihadistan as we do and do not want to see them take over Syria. We on the other hand appear to be supporting radical jihadistan in Syria.

There was a time where they would've cooperated with us... then came Libya.

The emperor went to the UN and convinced the Russians and the Chinese to approve a NATO led 'no fly zone' for the purpose of protecting civilians against Q Daffy's air assets . They agreed under the condition that the NATO forces weren't used for regime change.
Well we know how that worked out .
The Russians and the Chinese will not cooperate with us in Syria.

[paraclete]

No they won't cooperate because you aggressively pursue your ideology and in so doing push them out of their traditional markets, we were even with you and we were pushed out of our traditional markets. Yes if you take over Syria the Russians loose another cold war ally and of course that naval base. You need a proxy to do your bidding, Turkey has interests in stopping this conflict, convince them to act in their own and humanitarian interests

[tomder55]

Erdogan has his own visions of an Ottoman restoration . Yeah he'd love for us to help him more than we've already done. (Libyan arms and jihadists funneled into Turkey to infiltrate into Syria. Since the jihadists have also attacked the Kurdish population in Syria ,a jihadist takeover would also served his purpose well on that front.
My position is that the only vested interest we have in Syria is the security of Israel.

[paraclete]

My position is that the only vested interest we have in Syria is the security of Israel.

I can't see Syria returning to its former level for a long time, your interests lie in not allowing a vacuum to form in which a new jihadist state forms. Even though you don't like his politics, the government you have is better than the government you don't have. Iraq taught you that

[smoothy]

That's because Obama wanted out before a non-Islamic government could be put in place... and we all know Obama is pro-everything Muslim and anti-anything Christian.

Some of us learned the lessons of doing things halfassed like Vietnam... but apparently Harvard graduates aren't intelligent enough to comprehend that lesson.

[paraclete]

You don't elect political science graduates to the Presidency so don't expect geo-political savvy. In Syria the idea that a non-muslim government could result from what is happening is ridiculous, Assard is a Shiia, even backed by Hezbollah in Lebanon, the opposing forces appear to be Sunni but who knows. You didn't learn because your intervenion in Iraq was halfarsed, you got a military result and a civil disaster. I could imagine the same thing happening in Syria, Obama has so far had the good sense to avoid this

[smoothy]

You don't elect political science graduates to the Presidency so don't expect geo-political savvy. In Syria the idea that a non-muslim government could result from what is happening is rediculous, Assard is a Shiia, even backed by Hezbollah in Lebanon, the opposing forces appear to be Sunni but who knows. You didn't learn because your intervenion in Iraq was halfarsed, you got a military result and a civil disaster. I could imagine the same thing happening in Syria, Obama has so far had the good sense to avoid this

You don't have to be a political science major.. or even a history major... Obama like me was finishing Jr. High and entering Sr. High when we puled out of Saigon... so we grew up watching it on the evening news...

Obama is only a few months older than me... so we were in the same grades in school. So I know what he would have seen as well at the time.

Iraq wasn't really halfassed... but it became so when Obama got elected telling the terrorists and insurgents that if they waited a little longer they could have everything to themselves.

[tomder55]

Even though you don't like his politics, the government you have is better than the government you don't have. Iraq taught you that

After the 2007 surge Iraq was well on it's way to becoming a peaceful nation... Sunni and the Shiite living relatively peacefully... no car bombs, no suicide bombers.
Then the emperor and Maliki bungled the details of treaty that would've left a modest US security presence . Now Maliki is holed up in the Green Zone as his country descends into the law of factions ,tribes ,and jihadist gang rule .

Now weren't you just saying that the US and NATO should lead an intervention against "the government you have " ? I thought I saw that . This isn't easy for me because I'd dearly love to see Assad and his Iranian patrons defeated . But what we are backing there is virtually the same people who attacked us on 9-11.

[paraclete]

Exactly, politics makes strange bedfellows particularly when you take sides in an insurgency