All comes down to this

valinors_sorrow · Dec 5, 2006, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by MeeDee23

I don't know what I want....people here were the ones that called me unstable. I'm not upset at that, it's more of a reality that is helpful in calming me down and trying to slow down my actions. And I recognize that I am confused and am not certain one way or another what will come of all of this. One thing I do know for sure is that I need to put this aside for now because I feel I can. I am certainly not ready to confront this as you have seen from my waivering decisions. I still have time that I need to figure myself out some more and become more happy with my own life.

I hear your confusion MeeDee and understandably so too! I wish you much healing in your recovery from what happened. Relationpship loss does make a significant impact on each of us when it occurrs. When you are ready to confront anything, my hope is you consider this, which I posted recently on another thread but am copying it here because I think it has such relevancy to your situation too:

"Sometimes in all the discussion about NC, and even the debates in peoples' minds about NC -- I hear them sifting though the breakup part, asking themselves if they had handled the final days of the relationship leading up to the breakup better, could they have influenced whether the breakup occurred or not.

First of all, do see that all this sifing of the final days is really separate from the "no contact" stuff since the NC ought not come into play for anyone until AFTER the break up. If you are thinking you can apply no contact before a breakup, well, I would love to hear from anybody how that's going to work for salvaging a clearly distressed relationship. If its that distressed, implementing no contact isn't going to help it. Lots of others thing will, but that won't. NC is not being defined or used as some kind of recess or time out. Now that would be different and might help and last I looked, that is called a s-e-p-a-r-a-t-i-o-n.

Which brings me to the other point-- better handling of the ending days of any relationship may be the "too-late" time for attempting to handle anything well about the relationship. Its breaking up primarily because people did not handle well some aspect or aspects of the relationship for days and days before it got to the final days of the relationship. The problems began way back there and I bet for some, from the very beginning even. So chiding yourself about how much better you could have handling the final days before breaking up is really like lamenting that you are at the bottom of a hill you skiied down for sometime and just didn't notice.

What is to lament is one of two things: y'all partnered up with people who didn't help clearly identify those problems long before you're both into the final days. Or your partner did talk about it and you didn't listen, much to your own risk because it cost you their willingness to keep on trying to work it out with you. Pick the one that fits for you or perhaps its a combination of both. I would put my money on both more often than not.

If you want to do some productive crtitical analysis of what happened, find the real issus that killed the relationship, look at your part in them and deal with that so you don't do that again."

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 09:11 AM

See - the tone of her e-mails changed... no loving.

No chance in hell I would go to that 'meeting'.

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 09:13 AM

I never called you unstable once - you're fine. We've talked privtely. You just need to learn a little bit more about how to handle things.

MeeDee23 · Dec 5, 2006, 09:30 AM

Yea, so I definitely am not going to this meeting... for various reasons. I want her to get that point that it's my turn to be upset and take a stand. I'm not giving into her every request and I want her to feel it... especially since my goal is to improve self as to be a stronger man in the future.

I don't want to be mean to her... I love her... I just want her to know I can't be pushed around and I won't sit around and sulk about things that upset me. Plus I've got some fun things to do this weekend that just came up :) Thaaaank goodness haha.

Oh and Wildcat, my bad buddy, I didn't mean to accuse people of calling me unstable (you certainly didn't)... everyone here just helped put me in my place that I am too back and forth on what I want to do. I need to sit back and rationally think about and make the decisions that are best for ME.

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 09:32 AM

See - NOT meeting with her says a huge statement... "I am happy with out her - I don't NEED her to be happy" - it's dam important for him right now.

It will throw her for a loop.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 5, 2006, 09:43 AM

Well MeeDee and WC, since this is your plan for straightening out MeeDee's relationship, and its clearly your choice, all we can do is wait for further installments to see...

Time will tell, won't it?

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 10:00 AM

Yes it will. But he's doing the right thing.

You really think him going to a meeting and tell her how he feels will help? Yuck! Only in the MOVIES!!

The tone of her e-mails tell it all! No 'I miss yous' - no 'I love yous' - no 'I can't wait to see you' - no 'lets make plans' - I know these meetings - been there I nthe past.

You make it sound like everything is OK between them - it's clearly not. They had issues before this.

He needs to clean up his act and he is.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 5, 2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wildcat21

You really think him going to a meeting and tell her how he feels will help? Yuck! Only in the MOVIES!!!!! You make it sound like everything is ok between them - it's clearly not. They had issues before this

Forgive me, is this "YOU" meant for me? Or just a general YOU? I would like to clear it up for you WC by saying I've taken none of my strategies from movies, or even books. Au contraire -- they are from real life, mine and other people's. And I see issues here also, very plainly. In fact, I don't see anyone here who doesn't. :confused:

But its okay, and to be expected, that different ideas are posted here. The more the merrier even, that way the OP has a rich array to choose from. I understand he has made his choice too. I can respect whatever he chooses and would not care to turn this into a tug-o-war, ugh. But if it turns out to be incorrect, I would like to know it and to have some chance at understanding why too, if possible? Wouldn't you WC? In a way we've all been talking theories, and its important to know if the thoeories work, isn't it?

chuff · Dec 5, 2006, 10:55 AM

Cage Match!!

MeeDee23 · Dec 5, 2006, 11:34 AM

OK everyone enough bickering haha. I am not trying to be one-sided here, and I respect everyone's opinions... so as I think of new things, I will post them. For instance now:

I need to look at all angles, as to not make a bigger mess out of this. I still need more time to myself though. I'm sorry... I know I'm jumping all over the place and it's driving people here crazy. I really do appreciate everyone's help though. I just need to make the right move and considering all ideas is something I have to keep my mind open to.

I want to appear strong to her, but don't want to upset her. I agree she and I need to really sit down and communicate... but its too soon to show any improvement on my end. Deep I'd like to make a statement to her to make her think, but also don't appear cruel and that I want to cut her off. Basically I need a firm message that will make her think twice but won't cause ill effects later.

I know it depends upon the situation and the people, but what would you say? Thanks again

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 11:39 AM

I wouldn't worry about upsetting her. She asked for the 'break'.

valinors_sorrow · Dec 5, 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by MeeDee23

I want to appear strong to her, but don't want to upset her. I agree she and I need to really sit down and communicate....but its too soon to show any improvement on my end. I'd like to make a statement to her to make her think, but also don't appear cruel and that I want to cut her off. Basically I need a firm message that will make her think twice but won't cause ill effects later.I know it depends upon the situation and the people, but what would you say? Thanks again

Its okay MeeDee, sometimes getting down to our "truths" and hooking them up with what we think is the correct action is a messy business. Life is messy but it need not be chaos. So here is my suggested plan for you:

I would meet for a very brief meeting. This needs to be face to face -- its important. I would annouce to her that in this time apart, you've begun to see some things about yourself that you understand may be causing some difficulties in the relationship (it is a powerful thing to tell the truth).

I would limit discussion about it to that statement only and if she asked for details, say you will share more later, that you have good reason to postpone this part of the discussion and she'll just have to trust you-- this is very important and do not budge on it, say "sorry, if I am to improve at all, its just not open to negotiation at this time." (this is where you should make your stand)

I would further ask if she would go for a temporary separation so you can pursue working on making some changes, changes you hope to demonstrate later to her that you think she will really like.

If she seems open to that, I would use the remainder of the meeting for making the necessary "terms" of that separation, i.e.. You are still exclusive with each other or not, and should there be NC or not and when to expect a coming back together - make a list from this to use as notes if necessary. Or write them down as you decide if you are concerned you will forget later -- don't think for a minute that will look funny, it will look sincere.

Once you have secured that, kiss, say thanks and leave ---you will be free to concentrate on your work on you much much easier if you don't have to wonder if you have a relationship to return to and she'll understand what is going on and have something to look forward to too. If near the end or anywhere else, she would like to add any comments about what she thinks you need to work on, be open to hearing that but state to her upfront that you are open to a very limited amount only - like just one or two items, lest you end up overwhelmed and it becomes counter productive, which you both know you do sometimes and that's not good (Again truth - very powerful). Hear her one or two suggestions, politely stop her if necessary from making more LOL thank her and leave.

In a nutshell:
Request time to make changes

Severely limit topic to just relevant items

Make a clean get away with a clear understanding of separation

This is how a constructive separation is arranged. Voilà! (... and already you'v begun to change starting right here!)

Are you capable of this MeeDee? What do you think? Any questions?

MeeDee23 · Dec 5, 2006, 01:09 PM

This is very good stuff Val... I really haven't heard this sort of suggestion before, especially with most of the vote here going to NC. I really have to decide sometime tonight exactly what I'm going to do. This morning I was sure of it... but now I see new ideas. I need to apply the suggestions to myself and her, and see what the best way to go about this is. I've learned you can't generalize a way to handle things in any given situation based on what the school of thought is.

All I know is I realize things I didn't before about myself and our relationship... and I know better ways to go about them. But to try and demonstrate these things to her (that I have changed/learned) in just a number of weeks... well it is your guess as good as mine as to whether she wants to SEE or BELIEVE those changes.

I am very much caught between:
1) opening up the lines of communication in a way that she has never seen before and acknowledging to her that I see faults now that I want to take time to work on. In doing this I would have to hope she would see me as genuine in my commitment to better myself and us, but also that she isn't so hard-nosed that by seeing me show up at this meeting that she will have already made a decision on our future.

2) Taking a stand and saying no we shouldn't talk right now... and see what comes of it at a later time after I have worked on myself. This also trusts that she has the willingness to not be pissed off at me for doing this and accept that fact that space will help us.

They both seem so risky to me and it's almost a toss-up as to how to apply this to myself and her... I swear NOTHING in life is clear cut!

valinors_sorrow · Dec 5, 2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by MeeDee23

I am very much caught between:
1) opening up the lines of communication in a way that she has never seen before and acknowledging to her that I see faults now that I want to take time to work on. In doing this I would have to hope she would see me as genuine in my commitment to better myself and us, but also that she isn't so hard-nosed that by seeing me show up at this meeting that she will have already made a decision on our future.

2) Taking a stand and saying no we shouldn't talk right now.....and see what comes of it at a later time after I have worked on myself. This also trusts that she has the willingness to not be pissed off at me for doing this and accept that fact that space will help us.

They both seem so risky to me and it's almost a toss-up as to how to apply this to myself and her...I swear NOTHING in life is clear cut!

I can appreciate all that you are saying here. And you know her, we don't. One trick you can try to help in the decision is this:

If you can envision in the future what the new MeeDee will be like, and if you are fairly certain he would be acceptable, even very desired by her, then ask him which he would do, and do it. LOL :p Not to sound too Yoda-like LOL but the first few steps to who you would like to become are right here before you now and my heart tells me those will be the right ones for her too somehow. I trust your instincts on this when you don't! LOL

Allheart · Dec 5, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

I hear your confusion MeeDee and understandably so too! I wish you much healing in your recovery from what happened. Relationpship loss does make a significant impact on each of us when it occurrs. When you are ready to confront anything, my hope is you consider this, which I posted recently on another thread but am copying it here because I think it has such relevancy to your situation too:

"Sometimes in all the discussion about NC, and even the debates in peoples' minds about NC -- I hear them sifting though the breakup part, asking themselves if they had handled the final days of the relationship leading up to the breakup better, could they have influenced whether the breakup occurred or not.

First of all, do see that all this sifing of the final days is really separate from the "no contact" stuff since the NC ought not come into play for anyone until AFTER the break up. If you are thinking you can apply no contact before a breakup, well, I would love to hear from anybody how that's going to work for salvaging a clearly distressed relationship. If its that distressed, implementing no contact isn't going to help it. Lots of others thing will, but that won't. NC is not being defined or used as some kind of recess or time out. Now that would be different and might help and last I looked, that is called a s-e-p-a-r-a-t-i-o-n.

Which brings me to the other point-- better handling of the ending days of any relationship may be the "too-late" time for attempting to handle anything well about the relationship. Its breaking up primarily because people did not handle well some aspect or aspects of the relationship for days and days before it got to the final days of the relationship. The problems began way back there and I bet for some, from the very beginning even. So chiding yourself about how much better you could have handling the final days before breaking up is really like lamenting that you are at the bottom of a hill you skiied down for sometime and just didn't notice.

What is to lament is one of two things: y'all partnered up with people who didn't help clearly identify those problems long before you're both into the final days. Or your partner did talk about it and you didn't listen, much to your own risk because it cost you their willingness to keep on trying to work it out with you. Pick the one that fits for you or perhaps its a combination of both. I would put my money on both more often than not.

If you want to do some productive crtitical analysis of what happened, find the real issus that killed the relationship, look at your part in them and deal with that so you don't do that again."

Allheart is hereby officially lodging a complaint about this incredible web-site... Why do have to spread the reps... Why..

Val, can the word AMAZING be used too often? You are AMAZING.! Sorry couldn't give the rep, but your words exceed the little green guy anyway. Another keeper!

Allheart · Dec 5, 2006, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wildcat21

Yes it will. But he's doing the right thing.

You really think him going to a meeting and tell her how he feels will help? Yuck! Only in the MOVIES!!!!!

The tone of her e-mails tell it all! No 'I miss yous' - no 'I love yous' - no 'I can't wait to see you' - no 'lets make plans' - I know these meetings - been there i nthe past.

You make it sound like everything is ok between them - it's clearly not. They had issues before this.

He needs to clean up his act and he is.

Wild, boy I sure hope I didn't step in the lions den hear :eek: , but I am willing to take that risk :p

Wild, is it possible, even slightly, that the reason the tone of the emails, the no I love yous, no I miss yous... is because, maybe just perhaps, she is already feeling unsure of where she stands with MeeDee? Perhaps she is keeping her feelings close to the vest, out of fear? She did hurt someone that she love/d and she knows it. And SHE reached out to him, not knowing how MeeDee would react, but she took that chance. I am not saying this is the case for the missing emotions in her email, but could it be possible, that her omissions are due to her maybe being still unsure of things, and because he did do so well with the NC, that she is now uncertain as to how MeeDee feels and is unable or unwilling to make her self vulnerable, and have I love yous and miss yous all over an email to someone she just recently told... " I need space"?

Hmmmm what you think about that :)??

MeeDee23 · Dec 5, 2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Allheart

Wild, boy I sure hope I didn't step in the lions den hear :eek: , but I am willing to take that risk :p

Wild, is it possible, even slightly, that the reason the tone of the emails, the no i love yous, no I miss yous....is because, maybe just perhaps, she is already feeling unsure of where she stands with MeeDee? Perhaps she is keeping her feelings close to the vest, out of fear? She did hurt someone that she love/d and she knows it. And SHE reached out to him, not knowing how MeeDee would react, but she took that chance. I am not saying this is the case for the missing emotions in her email, but could it be possible, that her omissions are due to her maybe being still unsure of things, and because he did do so well with the NC, that she is now uncertain as to how MeeDee feels and is unable or unwilling to make her self vulnerable, and have I love yous and miss yous all over an email to someone she just recently told....." I need space"?

hmmmm what ya think about that :)????

Excellent point Allheart. And with that said, if she is concerned as to how I am feeling and wants to hide her emotions in the emails... would it hurt to stay away a little longer? Would it hurt to say "I can't meet right now but we will at a later date"?

My whole life I've always RAN back to the one that hurt me and they've always shot me down even more. I would love to tell her those things that Val was talking about... but it's still too soon. It makes me look like I'm a lost puppy running back at the first chance I have that the master calls. I intend to do something much like what Val said... but does it hurt to stand my ground for a while? Especially since she has 2 weeks of finals left... which I don't want to get in the way of.

Skell · Dec 5, 2006, 04:20 PM

This is your life Meedee and you have to live it as you see fit.

You make decisions that you will have to live and die by everyday. This is just another one.

So when you make one, don't second guess yourself.
Make it knowing it was YOU who made it, and no one else!

And it won't be a matter of success or failure or positive or negative outcome. Because whatever happens you will find success. Whether it be with or without this person.

What might seem like a negative outcome in the short term will likely turn into the most brilliant and unbelievable positive in the future.

God luck Meedee and please make sure you keep us informed of what goes on.. if you wish that is!

Allheart · Dec 5, 2006, 04:26 PM

MeeDee,

"Would it hurt to stay away longer"? Very good question. MeeDee, if you wish to stay away for a little longer, for the right healthy reasons for you, by all means there is nothing at all wrong with that... nothing.

MeeDee, be careful in bringing forward past hurts to this current situation. So very easy to bring it all with you, but be careful of having this girlfriend pay for the pains the past ones inflicted.

MeeDee, as long as you are taking a little more time for YOU, to heal just a bit more internally, which is very understandable, I see nothing wrong with telling her you need to delay the meeting.

Just be sure, there is no vengeance, spitefullness, planning plotting for an outcome, incorporated into your descion. Ya know, you hurt me... see how it feels. That sort of thing. I in no way think you are doing that. Honest. But it doesn't hurt to point out.

Vals advice and wisdom is one all of us need to post up and would be wise to follow. So glad you recognize the wisdom in her words.

MeeDee your consideration for her upcoming finals is an incredible statement to the person that you are... incredible and good for you.

No MeeDee, you do have the right absolutely, again as long as it is for the right reasons.

Your confusion in all of this, I know will soon lift.

Wildcat21 · Dec 5, 2006, 04:29 PM

Nope - it's a break. Go if you must. Been there - done that. I know the end to this story.

Sorry - but the women here are sugar coating this. They know what's going to happened - this is reality - not a romance novel where the guy spills his guts and cries and she takes him back - never happens in real life. Are they together now? no.

You can't convice some in words that you've changed - you have to show it. Talk is cheap.

This is fluff and gravey - this isn't the movies. The is reality. Re-read his initial post.

I deal in reality. I don't write romance novels.