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Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 02:38 PM

I think you have the purpose of "praying to"/asking saints in heaven for intercession confused with "praying to" them to, for instance, heal you or protect you themselves. Only God has that power.

450donn · Apr 6, 2009, 02:39 PM

Never said that. But there is NO where in scriptures that tells you to pray to any spirits. That is a false teaching from the prince of false teachings Plane and simple.
But since that is not the answer that Fred wanted he insists on asking this same ridiculous quest over and over again.
Why is it so hard to understand the scriptures? Are there that many people blinded by their religion that they cannot see false teachings when it smacks them up side the head?

Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Never said that. But there is NO where in scriptures that tells you to pray to any spirits.

Nor is there any verse that tells us not to ask saints in heaven to intercede for us.

450donn · Apr 6, 2009, 03:04 PM

Ah but WG there is a place where the Lord specifically taught us how to pray. Luke 11:1-4. This would have the place for Jesus to teach something other than to pray directly to the father would it not?

Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Ah but WG there is a place where the Lord specifically taught us how to pray. Luke 11:1-4. This would have the place for Jesus to teach something other than to pray directly to the father would it not?

There are a lot of omissions in the NT. This prayer doesn't tell us to ask other Christians to pray for us either. And Jesus did pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." The point of the Lord's Prayer is that we depend on the Father for everything. Asking for intercessory prayers only encourages that.

classyT · Apr 6, 2009, 03:54 PM

Wondergirl,

I'm not confused about anything. I am talking about prayer in the spirit.. asking in the spirit. I TALK and ask fellow Christians to pray for me but I am not instructed anywhere to pray to another spirit. If it AIN't in the Bible... don't add it. That is my motto And guess what?. that motto is actually IN the Bible. Lol I think it works pretty darn well too! Where in the world does it say that Peter or Mary can even HEAR us pray? It is a waste of time and completely unbiblical.

As far as the Lord's prayer he was instructing US how to pray, he wasn't talking about intercessory prayer. There are NO omissions. What the Lord wants us to know... psst. It is IN THERE! ( like preggo)

Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Wondergirl,

I'm not confused about anything. I am talking about prayer in the spirit..asking in the spirit. I TALK and ask fellow Christians to pray for me but I am not instructed anywhere to pray to another spirit. If it AIN't in the Bible...don't add it. That is my motto And guess what?...that motto is actually IN the Bible. lol I think it works pretty darn well too! Where in the world does it say that Peter or Mary can even HEAR us pray? It is a waste of time and completely unbiblical.

As far as the Lord's prayer he was instructing US how to pray, he wasn't talking about intercessory prayer. There are NO omissions. What the Lord wants us to know...psst. it is IN THERE! ( like preggo)

Yup, I understand where you're coming from. I used to be there too. And I'm not Catholic either.

Tj3 · Apr 6, 2009, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Tj3,

There is none. I don't get this practice at all. Why would I WANT to pray to a saint who has passed when I can go straight to the THRONE of the MOST HIGH GOD! WOW....i don't think christians fully understand the honor, privilege or power or they wouldn't waste their time asking a saint that had to be SAVED for help. It is kinda nutty. ( ok i expect to be badly bruised for that remark....bring it on..lol )

Yep. Let's look at it.

We can go directly to the throne of God the Father
We have God the Son as our mediator with God the Father
We have nothing in scripture telling us to pray to the dead
We have a prohibition against it in the Bible
We have an example of one attempt to communicate with a saint in heaven and God condemned the act.

Yep, it is beyond me why anyone woul;d ever want to do it.

Tj3 · Apr 6, 2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Isn't asking the same as praying to? The English phrase "I pray you to tell me what that means" is the same as "I ask you to tell me what that means." So why not ask saints in heaven to pray for us just as we ask saints on earth to pray for us?

Praying TO someone is a form of worship.
Petitioning in a court is not praying TO the judge, but rather that is a different meaning for the word (check your dictionary).

Tj3 · Apr 6, 2009, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Nor is there any verse that tells us not to ask saints in heaven to intercede for us.

There is sure is - it has been posted a few times during this discussion (in the prior thread)

classyT · Apr 6, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yup, I understand where you're coming from. I used to be there too. And I'm not Catholic either.

I disagree wit you.. you have never been there wondergirl or you wouldn't have given it up. Truth is always just that...

classyT · Apr 6, 2009, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Yep. Let's look at it.

We can go directly to the throne of God the Father
We have God the Son as our mediator with God the Father
We have nothing in scripture telling us to pray to the dead
We have a prohibition against it in the Bible
We have an example of one attempt to communicate with a saint in heaven and God condemned the act.

Yep, it is beyond me why anyone woul;d ever want to do it.

Tj3.

I like the way you put things... direct, to the point and correct!

Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

I disagree wit ya..you have never been there wondergirl or you wouldn't have given it up. Truth is always just that....

Yup, I was there, was raised that way, lived most of my life as a fundamentalist/evangelical.

classyT · Apr 6, 2009, 06:17 PM

Wondergirl,

You got enlightened... right? That's nice.I prefer truth.

arcura · Apr 6, 2009, 06:26 PM

Tj3,
What are you doing here?
I asked for positive evidence. You are continually negative in this subject.
You have caused the shutdown of one thread on this subject.
I'll be very displeased if you cause this one to go down.
Fred

Wondergirl · Apr 6, 2009, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

wondergirl,

you got enlightened...right? That's nice.I prefer truth.

Enlightened is for a Buddhist.

I prefer to worship a God Who hasn't been smooshed into a little box.

classyT · Apr 6, 2009, 07:36 PM

Wondergirl,

I give you this much you are good with the little come backs. Ok... I prefer to worship my God in spirit and in truth. I also prefer (since he is the one that instructed us) not to add to his word. Believing and abiding in his truth is NOT putting him in a box.

Fred,

Wow, why you ticked at Tj3? I agreed with him. I don't think I am being negative.

Note. I just re read your question. Sorry I misunderstood it the first time.. I was giving you biblical truth. But it wasn't in agreement. So I guess maybe I am being negative in your eyes. :(

Tj3 · Apr 6, 2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Wondergirl,

I give you this much you are good with the little come backs. Ok... I prefer to worship my God in spirit and in truth. I also prefer (since he is the one that instructed us) not to add to his word. Believing and abiding in his truth is NOT putting him in a box.

That is right. So often I hear people use this term "putting God in a box" to try to justify ignoring the limits that he gave us in scripture.

Fred,

Wow, why you ticked at Tj3? I agreed with him. I don't think I am being negative.

Fred's been like this with me for as long as I have known him (which is many years). I have offered my hand in friendship, I have asked him to take me up on my offer to take it off line so that we can discuss whatever is eating at him, and other suggestions, but he has outright turned down each of them.

arcura · Apr 6, 2009, 08:25 PM

classyT,
I also do most of my praying to God. But once in awhile I do asked the saints to pray to God for me.
I believe there is no sin in that and from the evidence that has been presented here and on another similar thread I know that there is no sin in asking the saints for help.
I am NOT picking on Tj3. I'm telling the truth.
In your case you are simply saying what you prefer or your choice in whom to pray to and that is good and fine.
I specifically asked for positive evidence that it is OK to ask saints to pray for us and have received some of that, Tj3 is attempting to provide the opposite against that and thus going against what has been aske for.
Some of my petitions to saints have been answered. To me that is proof that asking the saints for help does work.
As an example I have used a somewhat childish prayer to Saint Anthony, the patron saint for things that are lost.
It is, "Tony, Tony, look around. Somethings lost and must be found".
The I mention that which has been lost.
Lo and behold often what was lost is later found.
Was that an accident? Could be, but I think not for the request is often answered positively.
Try it sometime for yourself when something important to you has been lost.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
.

Tj3 · Apr 6, 2009, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
I also do most of my praying to God. But once in awhile I do asked the saints to pray to God for me.
I believe there is no sin in that

Many people believe many things, but that does not make it right especially when it is specifically prohibited in scripture.