[Credendovidis]

Credendovidis, You must believe in the bible, Even you is in the bible. Psalms14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God;They are corrupt, theyhave done abominable works, there is none that doeth good" People Believing there is no God They the doers of abominable works. The bible stated there is non believer in God. The bible is very factual becuase even you is in the bible. All your question on Faith the bible can answer.

I "must" nothing! Nor am I in your bible.
At least I respect your views, although I disagree with them. The same can not be said from you.
You call me a fool. Without being able to support that in any objective way. Because I am not a fool at all.
At least I know WHO the real fool is here!
;)

[Credendovidis]

There you have it, another 'good' christian calling another person a fool simply for having a different viewpoint than his.

Well, that is the problem with this board. Christians may paint us as fools and total idiots.
Our posts are sensored if the moderator disagree with our views.
I just keep polite, but keep to my point : You may BELIEVE what ever you want to BELIEVE. No problem!
But if you tell me that what you BELIEVE is the one and only truth, you make a CLAIM, and I am allowed to ask for objective supporting evidence for that.
So far the first valid reply has still to reach me...
;)

[Credendovidis]

Back to my earlier basic point made about the question in this topic :
.
All you can prove at best are individual claims in the Bible to be correct.
But for the Bible as Bible to be factual you have to prove that God exists, that God is the Almighty, that the Bible is God's word, that Genesis is factual, etc. etc. etc.
And nobody can objectively prove that. So the honest answer to the topic question is NO : you can not prove the Bible to be factual! All you can do is BELIEVE the Bible to be factual.
:rolleyes:

[ordinaryguy]

But there is no objective proof supporting these claims really to exist.

You're right, of course, but why would you even expect "objective proof" to be attainable in matters of religion and philosophy? "Proof" is attainable only in the field of mathematics. It's just silly to expect or demand it of believers. I don't understand why it offends you so that they can't provide it. Evidence and proof, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. They see it, we don't, oh well...

[Credendovidis]

You're right, of course, but why would you even expect "objective proof" to be attainable in matters of religion and philosophy? "Proof" is attainable only in the field of mathematics. It's just silly to expect or demand it of believers. I don't understand why it offends you so that they can't provide it. Evidence and proof, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. They see it, we don't, oh well....

I don't expect anyone to do that... as long as they do not claim that what they BELIEVE is FACTUAL and/or the one and only truth!
But when they do that it is fair for me to ask for objective proof to support that claim.
Note that Oxman is the one who started this topic with his request for help to prove the Bible to be factual!
My position is in reaction to that line of thinking.
;)

[rodandy12]

Oxman,

This is a debate that has raged for years. It can't be proven either way to the satisfaction of all parties. Much historic hatred would have been avoided if it had.

I recommend you do some careful study and determine what you believe. If you are going into this with an open mind, you potentially have a great deal of work ahead of you if you are going to weigh the different belief systems equally.

Many people have written on the subject. Sample a few and see if anyone speaks to you.

[ordinaryguy]

Great answer, Rodandy. You think like a founding father:

"Men ought (after they have examined with unbiased judgments every system of religion, and chosen one system, on their own authority, for themselves), to avow their opinions and defend them with boldness,”--John Adams

[Choux]

ordinaryguy,

Because religionists(Christians and Muslims) do horrible things and are doing TERRIBLE THINGS AS I WRITE because of what they *believe*, and what they believe is most certainly *not fact*... there is no proof of their personal god, none whatsoever! There is no GodAlmighty or Allah as depicted in their sacred writings.

That does not mean that there *may be* a "god" as explained by Albert Einstein... involved in the creation of the Universe but with no other qualities like primitive people effused about such as judger or all the rest of the anthromorphic qualities barbaric men imagined.

Some people enjoy having their personal godalmighty, expanded to a trinity. Mythology is comforting, but there will never be proof of the existence of godalmighty... people *believe* in godalmighty... they have FAITH.

[Credendovidis]

Choux - Ordinaryguy - Rodandy12

All three of you have good points/arguments!
What in this specific thread is relevant is IF the Bible can be proved to be factual, instead of the topic question HOW the Bible can be proved to be factual, because if the answer to IF is "no", the question to HOW makes no longer any sense.
With all respect to Christianity and Christians, there is no way to prove the Bible to be factual, as the basics of that religion (existence of God, qualities of God, and the Bible being the word of God) are based on BELIEF and FAITH, and NOT on OBJECTIVE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE.
.
What seems so strange to me is that those who suggest to possess the highest levels of BELIEF and FAITH, spend a lot of their energy on trying to find proof for that BELIEF, as if BELIEF and FAITH only is not enough for them.
I wonder what that means for the level and quality of their BELIEF and FAITH...
:rolleyes:

[inthebox]

I see you have not even considered post #34

Archaeology backs up a lot of what is told in the Bible.

Nk - You only need to look at your posts and the posts of choux to see where the "fool" playbook comes in.


Choux do some recent historical research as to the death toll caused by atheistic regimes.
USSR, Red China, Polpot.


The Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity?




Hitler's idea of a "master race" - where did that come from? Eugenics, survival of the fittest, natural selection.

[Choux]

The Muslims and the Christians(US) are in a fight to the death of each civilization as I speak, boxed-in guy. Try to comprehend what is going on around you!

[rodandy12]

inthebox,

Sure, the bible is history. The old testament is the ancient history of the jews. They exist. We don't need archeology to convince us of that. I don't think anyone seriously disputes their general history. But, archeology can't tell us anything about burning bushes, parting seas, blowing down walls with trumpets, etc. Those are issues of faith and they cannot be proven.

As for the new testament, I don't think anyone disputes that Jesus lived around the time of Augustus Caesar and is reported to have done many wonderful things. He also introduced a concept for living life that I don't think can be surpassed. But, his basic concepts are not his alone. Other religions suggest very similar philosophies.

Someone seeking a place to hang the hat of one's soul upon needs to work through the different options and educate themselves on the various possibilities.

But, they should know that the final answer will be an issue of faith. There is no way to prove it. They must find it in their heart.

[Fr_Chuck]

There are really bad things done in the name of many if not most religions over the years, this does not make the religion evil or wrong , it does not even make their beliefs evil or wrong. What it does mean and show is that there are evil people who use religion as a tool to get their goals.

I have often believed that there are a few religions that were created, as a method and form to control people. And we see this within several churches who may not have created their religion, as I do feel God created them, but man has used this faith in God as a tool to control masses of people.

We see that in most extremeist groups if it be christian, muslim or any.

[inthebox]

Rodandy:


You are right.

You have to be willing to see and willing to hear.

I find that science points us to the glory of God's creation.

[rodandy12]

Chuck,

Right. Most fanatics aren't anywhere close to the basis of the religion. If one shifts through those bases, it is about unconditional love and forgiveness. Not much of that in fanaticism.

I'm not sure God would recognize what passes for religion today. I'm pretty sure he/she wouldn't endorse it.

[addaddadd]

[QUOTE=NeedKarma]There you have it, another 'good' christian calling another person a fool simply for having a different viewpoint than his.[/QUOTE

I just prove the bible is factual. In the bible there's is a non believer that there is God. I just read it in the bible, according to the bible those are not believe that there is God is a fool person and not me who said that. It is a reality there's is non believer so the bible is right. Needkarma, if you believe in the bible READ IT! So you will not live in hyprocrisy.

[addaddadd]

Really so the new testament was written thousands of years before the greeks, who were before the Romans who were the ones that killed Jesus which the new testament about.

There is science in the bible but it's science that is almost 2000 years old. The science in the bible was common knowledge to the people of that time. It would be like you writing a book about things that are common knowledge now and after 2000 years and a dark ages cause by religious oppression(where the church burned all the real science books of the time by the way). People going, look if you change the words around and you do things like assume that when he said circle he really meant globe, this guy was right. He must have been inspired by god.

The earth is not flat is in the old testament thousands of years before Jesus Christ Came in flesh it is written in the Bible. The bible is advanced science. If you believe in the bible I will show how authentic the bible is.

[michealb]

If you believe in the bible i will show how authentic the bible is.

That's the problem right there. I don't believe in the bible. Not because I have something against your god it's because if the stories in the bible didn't have church behind them everyone would see them as fairy tales.

[addaddadd]

Thats the problem right there. I don't belive in the bible. Not because I have something against your god it's because if the stories in the bible didn't have church behind them everyone would see them as fairy tales.

What part of the bible you don't believe.

[michealb]

What part of the bible you dont believe.

The parts that deal with super natural events and places that didn't exist during the time of it's writing. So most of it.