[Hope12]

Me too.

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."


In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

[/B]."

Hello,

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.
That was not my intention, nor am I that kind of person. By enlightening me I meant that maybe JH could explain why he felt that my replies are rigid and if I need further understanding he could explain.

My understanding of the illustration of the account in Luke, chapter 16 to be of an illustration Jesus gave that is symbolic. Why do you feel it is literal?

In the King James Version, the Greek word Hades is rendered “hell” in each of its ten occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The rendering at Luke 16:19-31 mentions torment, but the entire account is symbolic in meaning. In verses 19-24 for example:
“19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
KJV
What then did Jesus mean when he said in illustrations: “The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom”? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind’s grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger?

What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
In my research an understanding here is what I have learned the illustration to mean.
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God’s Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Almighty God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers (the disciples) exposed their evil works according to Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,” KJV
So this illustration, to my understanding, does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.
Thank you, Hope12

[Wondergirl]

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.

I didn't. Where did I indicate that I did?

(I've known you for years -- on Answerway -- you're an "old friend.")

[JoeCanada76]

I too have known hope12 for years and years on answerway... (;

[classyT]

Hello,

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.
That was not my intention, nor am I that kind of person. By enlightening me I meant that maybe JH could explain why he felt that my replies are rigid and if I need further understanding he could explain.

My understanding of the illustration of the account in Luke, chapter 16 to be of an illustration Jesus gave that is symbolic. Why do you feel it is literal?

In the King James Version, the Greek word Hades is rendered “hell” in each of its ten occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The rendering at Luke 16:19-31 mentions torment, but the entire account is symbolic in meaning. In verses 19-24 for example:
“19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
KJV
What then did Jesus mean when he said in illustrations: “The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom”? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind's grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger?

What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
In my research an understanding here is what I have learned the illustration to mean.
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God's Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Almighty God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God's favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ's followers (the disciples) exposed their evil works according to Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,” KJV
So this illustration, to my understanding, does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.
Thank you, Hope12

The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father... HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar... I believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers... then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means... ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

[JoeCanada76]

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

You know what Classy T. I really enjoyed your answer. It was a huge Catholic teaching AT ONE TIME. That if you committed suicide you would automatically go to hell, but things have changed a lot. There is nothing in the bible to suggest that a believer who kills himself or herself would automatically be disqualified from heaven. We are not the judge either. So we can not truly say who is or is not going to be in heaven. Jesus died for our sins.

[Hope12]

The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father....HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar...i believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers...then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

Hello,

I have not mentioned anything in my comment about the account of Stephen. I also did not address the accounts of Jesus In Matthew.

I do agree with you though that no where in the Bible does it say that a believer or Christian will go to hell. Many people believe hell to be a place of torment. I do not! I believe hell to be the grave and all people that die go to the grave.

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)

the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.


The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”
What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.” If the wages sin pays is death, Why would they be tormernted if they already paid for their sins by dying? Can you explain this to me please? I find it hard to believe that a God of love would literally torment people in a flame of fire. Would a fleshly father set their child on fire as a punishment? Of course a loving father wouldn't. So how can a reasonable mind comprehend or heavenly Father who the Bible says loves us, do such an horrific unloving act?

Take care,

Hope12

[Hope12]

The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father....HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar...i believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers...then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

Hello,

I have not mentioned anything in my comment about the account of Stephen. I also did not address the accounts of Jesus In Matthew.

I do agree with you though that no where in the Bible does it say that a believer or Christian will go to hell a place of torment, but I do believe they will go to the grave, were all go when they die. When the word hell is trasnslaterd correctly from the original Greek and Hebrew words "sheol and Hades" they refer to the grave not torment.

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)

the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.


The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”
What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.” If the wages sin pays is death, Why would they be tormernted if they already paid for their sins by dying? Can you explain this to me please? I find it hard to believe that a God of love would literally torment people in a flame of fire. Would a fleshly father set their child on fire as a punishment? Of course a loving father wouldn't. So how can a reasonable mind comprehend or heavenly Father who the Bible says loves us, do such an horrific unloving act?

Take care,

Hope12

[Wondergirl]

It was a huge Catholic teaching AT ONE TIME. That if you committed suicide you would automatically go to hell, but things have changed a lot.

The same is true of Protestants. The more we learn about mental illness or other human illnesses, the more open-minded we have become about suicide and why someone might choose that.

[Wondergirl]

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

Yes, I agree, ALL. Jesus died for ALL. But if a person rejects that gift, none of his sins are forgiven.

[Hope12]

I didn't. Where did I indicate that I did?

(I've known you for years -- on Answerway -- you're an "old friend.")

Hello,
I am sorry, I just saw the word [snip] added to my reply to JH and thought that is what you meant. I am sorry if that is not what you meant. Why did you add [snip]? It is not in my orginal- repply to JH.

Take care,
Hope12:)

[Wondergirl]

Hello,
I am sorry, I just saw the word [snip] added to my reply to JH and thought that is what you meant. I am sorry if that is not what you meant. Why did you add [snip]? It is not in my orginal- repply to JH.

Take care,
Hope12:)

I took my virtual scissors and snipped (cut) out a part of your answer when I quoted you. Therefore, some of what you wrote is missing, snipped out.

[Hope12]

I took my virtual scissors and snipped (cut) out a part of your answer when I quoted you. Therefore, some of what you wrote is missing, snipped out.

Hello Wondergirl,

I am so sorry! I must have been in a bad mood, I thought you where calling me snippy. Please forgive my error.

Take care and thanks for explaining. :)
Hope12

[JoeCanada76]

Yes, Hope you were being snippy. Lol

I think I misread it too, but can we all hug each other now and say our Peace.

(;

[Wondergirl]

Hello Wondergirl,

I am so sorry! I must have been in a bad mood, I thought you where calling me snippy. Please forgive my error.

Take care and thanks for explaining. :)
Hope12

If I ever call you snippy, there will be no doubt that's what I'm doing.

[Hope12]

If I ever call you snippy, there will be no doubt that's what I'm doing.

Lol
That's good to know, I love direct people. Then there is not doubt as to what is being said.
Thanks again
Hope

[JoeCanada76]

I guess I was not as direct as I should be.

Here is a Hug Hope, Peace of Jehovah be with you.

Here is a Hug For My Auntie, Peace of God be with you.

[classyT]

Hope 12,

I'm a bit confused... because the scriptures that was posted... Acts 7 was INDEED about the stoning of Stephen.

Check these verses out:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

SO... it looks like physically we ALL die. WHY? Because of original sin... BUT that is just PHYSICAL death. We have a soul and a spirit and we WILL live someone forever...

It is appointed unto man, ONCE to die and after this the judgement. ( we will ALL be judged... believers and unbelievers)

Just out of curiosity what do you suppose these verses mean...

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 2:3?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation... Hebrews 2:3

Escape what?

Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The above verses certainly does not support your theory that death is the end.

I will be happy to answer your question about a loving God sending people to eternal punishment. He doesn't send anyone there... people choose itby rejecting the free gift. AND God loved us so much he sent his only son to the cross so we can be with HIM forever and ever.


I'm amazed that the Father sent his son to suffer and die for me. That really is a loving God so I could be with him forever. The only unloving act I can think of is for sinful people to reject God's free gift... the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Wondergirl]

Here is a Hug For My Auntie, Peace of God be with you.

Awwwwwww, thank you, sweet little Joey.

I guess I will not [snip] on the Christianity board, but be more explanatory: [I have cut out a section of what you wrote].

[Hope12]

Yes, Hope you were being snippy. lol

I think I misread it too, but can we all hug each other now and say our Peace.

(;

Hi JH,

Here is a B... ig Hug.

Thank,

*(snippy) Hope12 lol :)

[Hope12]

Hope 12,

I'm a bit confused...because the scriptures that was posted... Acts 7 was INDEED about the stoning of Stephen.

Check these verses out:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

SO....it looks like physically we ALL die. WHY? because of original sin... BUT that is just PHYSICAL death. We have a soul and a spirit and we WILL live someone forever...

It is appointed unto man, ONCE to die and after this the judgement. ( we will ALL be judged...believers and unbelievers)

Just out of curiosity what do you suppose these verses mean...

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 2:3?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation...Hebrews 2:3

Escape what?

Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The above verses certainly does not support your theory that death is the end.

I will be happy to answer your question about a loving God sending people to eternal punishment. He doesn't send anyone there...people choose itby rejecting the free gift. AND God loved us so much he sent his only son to the cross so we can be with HIM forever and ever.


I'm amazed that the Father sent his son to suffer and die for me. That really is a loving God so I could be with him forever. The only unloving act I can think of is for sinful people to reject God's free gift...the Lord Jesus Christ.

HI CT,

I never stated that you did not post the account about Stephen, I said I did not comment on it.As to all other comments you have posted, I prefer to take one point at a time.


For instance Matthew 10:28:
Jesus used the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna, as a fitting symbol of death without hope of a resurrection. He drove this point home when he warned that God “can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Gehenna is a symbol of eternal death, not eternal torture. If a person when they die goes to heaven or hell, why would God need to resurrect them?

Also if a person goes to hell, or as you believe, that hell is a fiery eterenal torment, what is left of them to burn for eternally? How does this harmonize with what the Bible clearly states: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave], the place to which you are going.” (Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10) These inspired Bible verses make it clear that when someone dies, he is no longer conscious. He cannot think, feel, communicate, or comprehend anything.

In my understanding of Matthew 10:28 it seems more likely that the word hell that some translate to mean eternal torment, contradicts other sccriptures such as Eccl 9: 5,6,10, Rev. 20:13, 14,

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”


This would be in harmony with (Romans 6:23) 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.


Take care

Hope12