[J_9]

but which is the greater evil, the many guns that kill many people or the few guns that kill many people.

Or the illegal kitchen knives?

[paraclete]

No the guns win

[J_9]

When I work in the ER I see more stabbings and beatings with blunt force trauma than I do gun shots.

[paraclete]

Strange but then the victims of gunshot don't make it to the ER, you find them in the morgue

[J_9]

Nah, not necessarily.

[J_9]

Honestly, I've placed more victims of knife wounds, blunt force trauma to the head and drunk driving in the morgue than gunshot wounds.

Ya know that not everyone who is shot dies? Right?

[tomder55]

so Tom what you are telling us is that rifles don't kill the 10,000 people who die from gun violence in the US each year, it is hand guns, how about this you get to keep your rifle and we ban all the hand guns?

You also need to watch your rhetoric, you just jumped from 2007 to 2011 without a blink or providing the statistics to back up your claim

I quoted the stats available. The problem with your logic is that you want to go after the low hanging fruit... the legal guns owned by lawful citizens . Chi-town this week went over the 500 murder mark for the year; including far more children than were killed in Connecticut . Almost all of them were done by gangbangers carrying illegal guns. I suggest there is where the gun control effort should be made .

[paraclete]

It is an endless debate Tom the reality is guns kill people, criminals kill people with illegal guns, nutcases kill people with legal guns, so the way out is not more guns but removing both the source and the stock. Look I know you aren't going to do it, it is too emotive an issue, it is a pity the safety of children doesn't carry the same emotion, because guns in the community didn't stop those deaths you speak of, so your argument is false logic

[tomder55]

No it isn't .Chi-town has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country .And Chicago's soaring homicide and violent crime rates is a demonstration of just how ineffective restrictive gun laws are. The cold hard fact is that criminals will always find a way to get guns.

[paraclete]

Yes and your answer is vigilante justice, the citizens militia, tell me Tom how come all those responsible gun owners haven't risen up and qwelled the violence, don't tell me they don't know who to target, there is a gang banger on every corner. The reality is it isn't going to happen, the power of one doesn't work in the US either.

When peoplewho have real experience of lower violence in their society give you a solution to try, why don't you listen to them. Is is stupidity, is it not invented here or is it just plain old pride.

[tomder55]

I don't call for vigilante justice . Legal guns are our constitutional right to self defense .

When people who have real experience of lower violence in their society, why don't you listen to them. Is is stupidity, is it not invented here or is it just plain old pride.

We'll talk about that when your nation has thousands of miles of open borders .

[paraclete]

I don't call for vigilante justice . Legal guns are our constitutional right to self defense .


We'll talk about that when your nation has thousands of miles of open borders .

We have 36,000 kilometers of border and not a fence in sight, when you have that much let us know, we had about 8,000 illegal arrivals by boat this year, don't know how many overstays, but we don't feel the need to defend ourselves by arming the population

The point I'm trying to make to you is yourself defense isn't working because in actual fact it is bullshlt