[tomder55]

What we need is a society where everyone has meaningfull work and the means to satisfy their needs,

From each according to their abilities ;to each according to their needs... how has that theory worked out ?
The trouble is that you libs leave out the 1st part and change the second part to... money for nothing.Welfarism is not compassionate .

Ex debates as if we are trying to cut the net out from a small part of the population as he defends an ever increasing percentage of the population that is eligible for largess.

The productive part of society cannot support such a system without the whole society collapsing from the weight of the burden.

I agree with Cal and his calls for education reform . I'd start with choice... something I thought libs were in favor or... I guess not unless it has to do with snuffing the life out of babies.

[paraclete]

Tom in every system there have to be checks and balances, did you note the word work in my remarks?

where everyone has meaningfull work

If the systems have failed it is in this respect and so we have a system of welfare without work which is not what I said. We would rather provide a pittance and shove the problem out of sight than face the real task.

[talaniman]

Lol, you guys should stop listening to fat capitalist tell you about welfare and who is on it as the Newtster well knows one of the requirements to even be on welfare is you have to work.

Eligibility Requirements for State Welfare Program

Eligibility for a Welfare program depends on numerous factors. Eligibility is determined using gross and net income, size of the family, and any crisis situation such as medical emergencies, pregnancy, homelessness or unemployment. A case worker is assigned to those applying for aid. They will gather all the necessary information to determine the amount and type of benefits that an individual is eligible for.

The Federal government provides assistance through TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). TANF is a grant given to each state to run their own welfare program. To help overcome the former problem of unemployment due to reliance on the welfare system, the TANF grant requires that all recipients of welfare aid must find work within two years of receiving aid, including single parents who are required to work at least 30 hours per week opposed to 35 or 55 required by two parent families. Failure to comply with work requirements could result in loss of benefits.

Most people on public assistance leave one 7 bucks and hour job, to go to another 7 bucks an hour job, and have kids. One in 4 american kids is in poverty. Are there scammers to the system, no doubt, but treating the ones who need it as scammers is totally overkill. So what the hell is Mitt, and Newt talking about?

What are you wingers talking about when you say libbers want to give it away free? Nice for the right to vilify the left, but as most things low informed citizens are good about, eat the red meat they feed you and the hell with the facts, and Mitt, and Newt won't tell the truth or the whole story, because then you wouldn't elect them. Fear is your problem, scared witless that of everything the far right is throwing at you. Get your own facts and fact check the facts, and stop letting the talking heads do your thinking for you.

It's the 1% that are trying to make you a Euro/socialist state. NOT us libbers. Just ask MITT. On second thought DON'T, he is unemployed, and looking for a job.

[paraclete]

Tal I'm not talking about a carrot and kicks scheme, I'm talking about a society that provides meaningful work for everyone. This is what is missing in so much government philosophy because there is a safetynet syndrome.

[talaniman]

No Clete, you are a bit off, as there is an enormous amount of work that SHOULD be done, the real argument is who does it for how much, and who pays for it. The greedy b@stards want to make money off it, and lots of it.

There would be no safety net syndrome if business got out of the way of accomplishment, and the willingness of people to accomplish. You wouldn't have a safety net syndrome if businesses didn't screw the workers by putting profits before people. The business model says profits by any means necessary. The business model of extraction ism is BROKEN.

[paraclete]

Well Tal I ceretainly agree with you there and I think we have both said the same thing in a different way.

The capitalst system is broken because it has no social conscious, stockholders interests are placed before employees and social capital is wasted while dollar capital grows. This is not a good thing and the result is a society obscessed with amassing wealth