Hello:

IF there's class warfare going on, it seems to me the first shot was when the right wing pointed out that 47% of Americans don't pay federal income tax... You've seen those posts all over the place here, and the right wing is STILL riding that horse...

There IS class warfare happening, and the right wing is waging it.

No?

excon

No I don't think so. 48.5%, of the population lived in a household that received some type of government benefit 'paid for by people who don't . Seems to me that the class warfare if there is such a thing is being waged by those who ever expand the largess.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...1005140904.jpg


And it will get worse as more Baby Boomers retire and Obamacare if fully implemented .


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. "Alexis de Tocqueville

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” -- Thomas Jefferson

Hello again, tom:

The difference is that the right wing thinks that people are HAPPY about their lot on the dole, and they're SATISFIED, even EAGER to let the government support them... You hear it all the time from your side that people on unemployment would RATHER stay there instead of working...

There's NO acknowledgement from your side that we're in the middle of a major economic disaster and there ARE no jobs.

I suggest that when there ARE jobs for the unemployed they'll HAPPILY take them. You, on the other hand, want to paint them as lazy leeches. THAT'S class warfare, in my book.

excon

I say nothing of the kind.
Also ,as the chart shows ;even in good times ;the people who are recipients of government aid has ever increased .


As you know from the Euopean example ;that is unsustainable . I don't know why you want to duplicate such a failed system.

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Originally Posted by excon

The difference is that the right wing thinks that people are HAPPY about their lot on the dole, and they're SATISFIED, even EAGER to let the government support them... You hear it all the time from your side that people on unemployment would RATHER stay there instead of working...

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I don't know anyone that thinks that way and I don't hear anyone saying most people would rather not work.

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There's NO acknowledgement from your side that we're in the middle of a major economic disaster and there ARE no jobs.

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Uh, whenever the current candidates aren't throwing bombs at each other that's EXACTLY what they're saying. What is this, opposite day?

What this demonstates is the failure of capitalism. Allowing investors to make all the important decisions has not enriched the nation, it has enriched a few, and left large numbers with inadequate income.

This comes from wrong thinking, a failure to realise that if we all prosper, we all prosper. I keep hearing that if the capitalist prospers, we all prosper but this is not so, because a capitalist will down size a business just when we need to maintain employment. A capitalist will send jobs offshore just when we need to maintain local employment.

You keep saying you don't want to be like the europeans but Europe has an economic powerhouse in Germany which is sustaining these poor performing nations, so there are lessons to be learned, why don't you learn them?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I don't know anyone that thinks that way and I don't hear anyone saying most people would rather not work.

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Hello again, Steve:

Well, YOU'RE a lib, of course, but it's the discussion de rigueur on O'Reilly.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Well, YOU'RE a lib, of course, but it's the discussion de rigueur on O'Reilly.

excon

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Ok, I will say it. There are groups of people that feel entitled to the monies they receive when it is in the form of welfare. And in some families there has been generations that grew up that way. It has become the new slave state.

As far as unemployment goes. If you had to close a steel mill and those persons were clearing 60k a year and now are on unemployment. You can bet most will not take any job that pays less then unemployment does. Many on unemployment need job training and a skillset that matches today's employment market. But when you make it a requirement after being on unemployment for a given period then they scream bloody murder. May that remain in the workforce have had to get retraining to keep up with their current job demands which may include expanding their initial role in the business and wearing different hats at times. For those that had left it leaves them without a job to return to as the skillset has now changed. We just need to figure out how to break the cycle and get people back into the private side of the workforce again.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Ok, I will say it. There are groups of people that feel entitled to the monies they recieve when it is in the form of welfare.

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Hello dad:

Nobody disputes that when you claim everybody does something, there's always 10% who DON'T. Certainly, there ARE leeches on society...

But, the right wing paints ALL Democrats like that, or at least of fostering welfare so they'll develop a constituency of dependent people... I say Democrats want to create a safety net so people don't starve.

It's a sign on the times that there are so many people needing assistance - NOT a sign of the Democratic party.

excon

To me it goes well beyond a safety net mentality. It does cross the line into abuse. The Democrats believe that throwing money at a problem will solve it. The republicans believe that lending a helping hand is needed for a time but as the saying goes. Give a man fish and he will soon learn to expect it. Teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry.

Yes in this society there must be a safety net of some kind. And we are seeing revisions of that everywhere. But wouldn't it be better for the young mother on welfare to have an education and the dignity to make her own decisions then to have the government do it for them?

As a tax payer the only thing I ask is that I get value for my money. And if someone's life changes because of an education program and they have the chance for personal growth away from welfare then more power to them.

Sometimes a little culling is good for the flock.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

But wouldnt it be better for the young mother on welfare to have an education and the dignity to make her own decisions then to have the government do it for them?

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Hello again, dad:

Sure, it's better to contribute.. But, I'm not going to let 'em starve or go without health care if they don't.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

Sure, it's better to contribute.. But, I'm not gonna let 'em starve or go without health care if they don't.

excon

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So how long is long enough for you before there may be some kind of requirement for action? Never? Maybe after 2 years? Maybe 18 years and the child is out of the home?

Is there a limit to the giving ?

Come on Ex, its only class warfare when you talk about raising taxes on the rich, more specifically the 1%. But its NOT class warfare when you talk about medicare/medicaid cuts, unemployment insurance, health care, Social security, food stamps or heating oil assistance for the aged. That's deficit reduction, not class warfare! Get your terms straight before you start jumping on them right wingers!

I guess you think poor people are people too?? Well they ain't, because all they do is suck all the money from the economy and spend it on 40 ouncers, and lounge in there safety net. I mean can you blame the middle class for not wanting to work? You don't see smart guys like Mitt worried about the poor.

I heard the other day that the poor had so much money they were turning down dish washer jobs. Can you imagine? Turning down a real job for unemployment?/ The gall of those lazy b@star@ds!! Everybody knows the only way to get a cell phone is get on food stamps.

Ex you got life and BS all screwed up. Now send mitt some money to help the middle class why dontcha!! Or take some singing lessons.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Is there a limit to the giving ?

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Hello again, dad:

I don't know. When would YOU be comfortable with letting them die on the streets?

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

I dunno. When would YOU be comfortable will letting them die on the streets?

excon

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Who said die in the streets? Wasn't me :)

I said how long before a requirement for action. That doesn't mean snatching the net away. It just a means to ensure that net doesn't turn into a hammock.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Who said die in the streets? Wasnt me :)

I said how long before a requirement for action. That doesnt mean snatching the net away. It just a means to ensure that net doesnt turn into a hammock.

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Hello again, dad:

Wasn't it you who decided to "say it"?? Ok, let's SAY IT! If you don't feed people or give them health care, they'll DIE in the streets..

Action, smaction... We're talking about the 10% here. They DON'T want to contribute, and they won't be forced. I ask you again, are you going to let them die in the streets?

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

Wasn't it you who decided to "say it"??? Ok, let's SAY IT! If you don't feed people or give them health care, they'll DIE in the streets..

Action, smaction... We're talking about the 10% here. They DON'T wanna contribute, and they won't be forced. I ask you again, are you gonna let them die in the streets?

excon

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No not the 10% because it is a problem that we have to learn to deal with as we have created it. They only way to truly deal with them is to allow them to live out their live in the current fashion and encourage the next group to not be like that. As we have seen in out lifetimes the hearts and minds of people can be changed over time. The thing is how do we stop creating new ones?

That is where the requirements belong. Your not going to change the old guard but you can train the new ones. So on my dime let the training begin. Lets break the cycle.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

So on my dime let the training begin. Lets break the cycle.

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Hello again, dad:

See, I KNEW you was a lib.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

See, I KNEW you was a lib.

excon

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Guess again. Its called free thinking. You try as you can to do what makes sense. If I were a lib then it would be everyone rides for free :)

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Guess again. Its called free thinking. You try as you can to do what makes sense. If I were a lib then it would be everyone rides for free :)

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Now there is an idea. If everyone rides for free they need less wages

What we need is a society where everyone has meaningfull work and the means to satisfy their needs, but you can't have that according to management theory because when you satisfy those needs there is no motivation to climb that ladder and run in the spinning wheel like good little gophers and if you have no pool of unemployed where do you find that cannon fodder for the capitalists to exploit?