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rol · Feb 16, 2007, 06:39 AM

True Yolanda,

I find the behaviour of these people extremely strange, asking you to be his valentine pfff
Did you tell him NO!;-)LOL

<<If he wants me back his is going to have to work! >>
EXACTLY!

For now don't bother to answer any more of his calls.

Good for you!

What age is he?

yoyolb · Feb 16, 2007, 12:09 PM

He is 24 years old so I am older than him. It's never been an issue until now. I have heard through the "grapevine" that he is really confused. He doesn't want to lose me but he feels like he can't take care of me in his current situation so rather than realize that I deeply care for him, he'd rather give me away than risk getting dumped later on down the line.
Based on this info, I did not find it necessary to be mean when he asked me to be his Valentine. He was even sure to point out that he was driving past my house. I told him I saw him and he had that long pause again like "well why didn't you run outside and throw yourself in front of the car and beg me to come inside?" I knew that we couldn't get together because I had things to do. I felt good saying " Sure I'll be your Valentine, well I have to go to my Ph D classes, enjoy the rest of your day!" and getting the hell off the phone. I don't want to give him anything that he already expects. I want him to know that my life is still great without him. I am trying to let him know that he has a small window of opportunity to come at me correctly or else I'm gone.
I try to not answer his phone calls but he calls me from numbers I don't recognize. Since I am a teacher, I get calls all the time from parents and I always answer my phone ( and he knows this).
I have come to the conclusion that men are just as (if not more) emotional as women. They just don't know how to deal with it, which causes them to do and say stupid things.

Every guy I have talked to tells me to be patient ( these are guys that would not lie to me or steer me wrong). His actions say that he cares for me and doesn't want to lose me but now that I told HIM I am moving on he doesn't know how to react. The fact that I have ACTUALLY stopped calling, stopped bringing up the relationship, and stopped begging has him in complete shock.
We shall see how this all unfolds.
For right now, I am stronger than I have ever been and am willing to accept what ever the outcome is. All I am concerned about is being called DR.BROWN in approx. 2 years. That is the best revenge!!
Rol, I read your post and I must say that YOU are strong. What ever came of your situation?

rol · Feb 18, 2007, 07:03 AM

Hi yolanda,
Mine is updated now under https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...ide-56487.html
I can relate a lot to what you are going through.
You are doing fine, yes stop asking anymore questions, that will get you nowhere, just keep in uncertainty yourself , don't answer all his calls , be mysterious etc etc.

Xochipilli · Feb 18, 2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by yoyolb

I have come to the conclusion that men are just as (if not more) emotional as women. They just don't know how to deal with it, which causes them to do and say stupid things.

Every guy I have talked to tells me to be patient ( these are guys that would not lie to me or steer me wrong). His actions say that he cares for me and doesn't want to lose me but now that I told HIM I am moving on he doesn't know how to react.

This is quite often true. It's called emotional intelligence. A very large number of men in Western culture are cavemen where this measure of intelligence is concerned, because we aren't often socialized to deal with that kind of thing. The entire universe of emotional interactions related to romantic love are things that women are heavily socialized to deal with. For evidence, one need only understand that you will only rarely see a serious "romance quiz" in a men's magazine, but they are plastered all over women's mags. Men just go with the flow, expecting to have the armor (a very male metaphor) to deal with relationships without the slightest training.

I have this problem myself, which is why I'm here. The difference between me and many men is that I know it and am trying to soak up knowledge on the subject. But I'm still poor at it, and you don't often get many free passes for bonehead behavior, even though the guy may not understand why he does it or how to behave properly. That is why those guys were saying what they said about your boyfriend. Probably they sympathize.

I mean, I consider myself a fairly bright person, but this being an area I've never really concentrated on, I can only vaguely guess what you mean by "come at me correctly." Not to be flip, but does this entail a dozen roses and a dozen "I'm sorries," because all I can think of right now is clichés...

yoyolb · Feb 18, 2007, 10:17 AM

What I mean by "come at me correctly" is communicate his true feelings to me without the fluff. He is a very "democratic" talker. He will say things in the same sentence that totally contradict each other. For example," I do not want to get back together, I love you and don't want to see another man loving you." Well then stop calling me and asking me what I'm doing. Another example, " I don't want to work things out then call me the next day to tell me Happy Valentines day and ask me to be his Valentine. Although he did not mention anything about getting back together but by asking me to be his Valentine on a day that is set aside for being with significant loved ones sends the message that he still looks at me in that way. Someone who is sure they do not want to work things out would steer clear of sending any mixed signals to someomne they know is in love with them. Basically, don't call me.Let me go if you don't want to get back together or work things out. I used to fall for it everytime but now I have stopped. I had no choice but to walk away and leave him by himself. Maybe then he will have time to think about what he really wants so that way he can come to me with a "real" answer/decision. I called it playing games ( wanting the cake and eating it too) but my male friends insist that he probably really is confused and doesn't want to make a mistake so he says things that allow him to keep the door open in case he wants to come back through it. For me, that window of opportunity is closing. If he decides to attempt to come back through, he is going to have to work. That means be consitent, stay true to his word, and put that extra time and care into proving himself to me. Right now, I am in the process of shutting myself down from him. He has no room for error at this point. Step to me correctly or keep walking buddy!

valinors_sorrow · Feb 18, 2007, 10:46 AM

I too find that personal integrity (mean what you say, say what you mean, make you actions match your words consistency over time) factors a great deal in matters of the heart because it goes straight to the trust department and either adds or subtracts there. Love without trust is possible but the price for that is really in the intimacy department. This is exactly what determines for me the difference between a close personal friend and an acquaintance as well as who I selected as a mate. This is not necessarily the same as some situational confusion that we work through but can be more so a stage of development. Those who substantially lack the ability to make sense are really kids in adult clothing-- lost is often a condition of immaturity. Some are even permanently stuck there as I have met people like that of all ages. Lets hope your friend is not like. I think you are right to think that you need to kiss him on the forehead and think quietly to yourself, maybe after you grow little more but I am not holding my breath. And you certainly can't do the growing for him.

Xochipilli · Feb 19, 2007, 12:37 AM

It sounds to me that he doesn't really know what he wants, but is desperate to come to a conclusion. He doesn't have the tools. I've been there. I didn't usually contradict myself in the same sentence, but I have sent mixed signals, because of a lack of understanding of what I was doing and a failure to commit to a course of action. I would rather call his comments "anarchic" than "democratic." There is no one in charge in his statements. His indecision is based on fear, and unfortunately for you, you aren't in a position to break his fear. That's his job. He may not even realize that he's destroying himself.

A famous author once wrote: "Fear is the mind killer." He was right.

rol · Feb 19, 2007, 02:54 AM

Its interesting to see the perspective from a mans point of view who has been there Xochipilli.

Could you tell us what this fear is exactly based on?is it a combination of fears? Fear of losing oneself? Fear of not being able to focus on oneself?

You also sound highly intelligent and I'm beginning to wonder is this a problem faced more by highly intelligent people? That they begin to "think and analyse" far too much.

LBP · Feb 19, 2007, 04:33 AM

I know I've had the problem of overthinking a subject and, even worse, attempting to assume the nature of my partner's thoughts which is a road straight to damnation...

But I never allow myself to say what I don't mean and, frankly, become quite irritated with people who believe that statements are just words in the wind...

Don't look at men so dimly, yoyolb... You women folk can be very confusing sometimes! I mean, it's happened far too often for me that I've been told one thing by a woman, see her do something completely different, call her on it and then have it somehow end up being my fault. These things do happen! We get very confused over stuff like that!

And I must wonder, yol... all these things that you've said he must do, have you ever broached them to him? Does he know you find his indecisiveness pathetic? Men can be quite stupid without feedback. However, if you want him gone, who cares whether he knows how he's screwing up... Other than him, of course.

yoyolb · Feb 19, 2007, 06:31 AM

I would categorize Xochipilli as a Behaviorist. He seems very versed in matters of human development and how they effect social behaviors. Like Piaget, Freud, etc.
Anyway ;o)
The fact that he doesn't say what he means and mean what he says is really what's weird to me. Throughout this whole ordeal, his parents and his oldest sister still have no clue what is REALLY going on. His sister called me the other day and was just talking and she asked me something about Jeff and his car and I had to tell her that I don't really talk to him like that anymore. She was like "what?" he said you guys were having problems but I just talked to him the other day and he said you guys were still talking." His mom asked why I don't come by anymore. One of my male friends (who didn't know we had broken up) saw Jeff the other day and asked about "us" and he said that Jeff said we were "chilling". He was in such shock when he called to tell me he saw him and I told him we hadn't been together in over 2 months. He was like what da hell? Why not just say " We are no longer together". ( That is how the whole Male-meeting came about b/c they were like this dude is CONFUSED and they don't want me to cut him off just yet)This is why I called him "democratic". He doesn't want to look bad so he paints this picture that looks good for "everyone". Maybe I should simply just call call him a "politician".
LBP-
I agree that woman can be just as confusing ;o) I didn't mean to make it seem that I was male-bashing. That is not my purpose at all. I am just trying to understand Jeff a little better because I am at the point of letting go. I love this man with all my heart but I do not want to keep putting my heart out there to be played with. Like I said, time will tell if he was confused or if he really wants out. I am just not sitting by and falling for everything he does anymore. I don't want him gone, I want him to get it together, with or without me. I have not told him what he needs to do because that is for HIM to realize. I am done trying to persuade, convince, or force myself on him. This is something he needs to do on his own.

valinors_sorrow · Feb 19, 2007, 06:48 AM

I would hope his family at some point would urge him to seek help. From your latest description, he is seriously disconnecting from reality and that may be a sign of an emerging mental illness or an emotional crisis that would really benefit by professional help. Refusing to deal with life on life's terms is not just a quirky personal perspective from what I have seen/experienced and to view it that way underestimates how much is really going wrong. Letting go of him while making it plain to his family that you think he needs help is all you can do. Then its up to him. You are done at that point and free to begin the grieving process. I am so sorry for your loss.

rol · Feb 19, 2007, 06:51 AM

Gosh its amazing but he sounds exactly like my ex.
Confusion is not the word!
My ex didn't even tell his family that the wedding was cancelled , I rang the sister in law 1 month before our proposed wedding as I had to ask her if she knew what was going on with him and she told me that she did not know the wedding was off, that she thought we were just living separately. Many other things that happened also led me to believe he was losing his mind. He didn't tell anyone either.

I cannot understand this "FEAR" and confusion. This also prevents me from completely understand as I do not know what happened.

<< Like I said, time will tell if he was confused or if he really wants out. I am just not sitting by and falling for everything he does anymore. I don't want him gone, I want him to get it together, with or without me.>>

I definitely think he is completely confused,When I talked with my ex in October he told me he was confused for 5 months and he was still definitely confused even then. The words and actions just did not match.

I think the best thing now yol is just to get on with your life and leave him to work things out, try not to see him while he is in this confusion or I think you will both get even more confused..

yoyolb · Feb 19, 2007, 07:00 AM

My Male friends say it is fear of losing me, but knowing that he can't hold on to me without a commitment. They say a man has to feel like a man at all times, whether it's washing the car, working on their motorcycles, or taking out the trash. Right now he doesn't feel like much of a man. Remember he had no job, his car was messed up, and he lives with his parents. He has a dad at home but he says he can't talk to him about matters of the heart. His older brother is a mess as well. He says all the time that he does not want to end up like him. Apparently my male friends have all been at this point at one time or another and they want me to hold on before I do anything hasty. They say just relax. No crying, whining, and calling. Just chill and work on me. Date, have fun, go out but they swear he will come to senses soon. They claim that ignoring his phone calls is not the key. Answer the phone but sound cheery and get off the phone quickly. Like you said ROL, be mysterious.

I don't think he has a mental illness, I think he is CONFUSED and SCARED.
I have larned that other people have gone through this as well. People such as ROL. I don't think her fiancé was crazy, juts scared of commitment.
I agree with ROL. I am moving on and working on me. If he comes around then great. If not, I am still okay.

rol · Feb 19, 2007, 07:16 AM

<<He has a dad at home >>

Just one more question, what happened to his mother?

valinors_sorrow · Feb 19, 2007, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by yoyolb

I don't think he has a mental illness, I think he is CONFUSED and SCARED. I have larned that other poeple have gone through this as well. People such as ROL. I don't think her fiance was crazy, juts scared of commitment. I agree with ROL. I am moving on and working on me. If he comes around then great. If not, I am still okay.

I realise that the suggestion of a mental illness is a hot button for some folks and if it is with you, forgive me. I also mentioned that it may be an emotional crisis too but that somehow got lost in the shuffle. I certainly see confusion like you initially described as possibly a temporary thing people work through and said so in an earlier post. What you said lately seems more extreme in terms of not dealing with reality which is why I took note and responded likewise. I don't think anyone can accurately predict where stuff like this goes in any individual, not even the ones trained in assessment. And no one needs to be "crazy" to be in trouble. It hits me as sad they are left alone and floundering, encouraged to tough it out (when its clear they aren't) only because seeking professional help carries such an unwarranted stigma. I am not a big fan of time doing anything but make one older. And if nothing changes, well then nothing will change. If I am not helpful here, well, at least I have been accurate about what I see in the world and honest with you about it. I really do wish the best for all of you.

yoyolb · Feb 19, 2007, 07:33 AM

His mom is fine. They just are not the kind of family that talks about relationship things. In a way. He is like th man of the house. His dad can not walk very well and it seems that the simplest things fall on him. Ex; getting his neices and nephews something to eat, driving his mom around to take pictures for work. It's like, when is he ever suppose to handle his own business? It's a whole story I don't even want to get into ;o)

talaniman · Feb 19, 2007, 07:38 AM

What women don't always get that commitment is a life changing event, and unless you have the maturity, and the incentive it is hard to embrace such a concept, as you are now responsible for more than just yourself. Scared is an understatement to a young guy faced with the task of getting himself together, and feeding and housing himself. Try terrified to get a more accurate feel for his emotions. He has to prove his worth to himself before he can feel comfortable with committing to someone else's well being. Who wants to go from living with dad to taking care of a relationship without the benefit of doing for himself. That experience comes with the doing. He is not ready, or at that point and you can only let him find his way for now, but don't wait on a maybe. You do have your own life to live.

talaniman · Feb 19, 2007, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by yoyolb

His mom is fine. They just are not the kind of family that talks about relationship things. In a way. he is like th man of teh house. His dad can not walk very well and it seems that the simplest things fall on him. Ex; getting his neices and nephews something to eat, driving his mom around to take pictures for work. It's like, when is he ever suppose to handle his own bussiness? It's a whole story I don't even want to get into ;o)

I wish I had read this before I posted as he is between a rock and hard place. They depend on him and you want him, what a choice to make.

rol · Feb 19, 2007, 07:59 AM

Yeah the latest post makes me think he needs time to take care and focus on himself without a relationship to focus on also. He cannot give you his best right now, and the more I am reading these days I really think if a guy cannot give his total 100 percent to a relationship he prefers to drop it.

valinors_sorrow · Feb 19, 2007, 08:09 AM

It may be that in order to have the healthy relationship you want him to have with you, he may first have to find a way to extricate himself from what is beginning to sound like something of a dysfunctional family. A family culture that is not talking about relationships really says a lot to me (like what else isn't being talked about, for starters) and having a sick parent in any capacity is ALWAYS a tremendous burden to which people often maladapt. Reviewing the movie "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" could be very enlightening -- I know it was for me. It may be that he is not available for a relationship period -- unless and until the dynamics of his family life changes and only he can do something about that. LOL And before anyone jumps my stuff about calling his family possibly dysfuntional, please let me pose this thought: a healthy family would find a way to solve their problems without requiring that he sacrifice any aspect of his life including the means of having a relationship. I have played a small part (in my previous profession) in seeing families arrange to solve with fairness with some outside help very nicely.