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Yes ;that's why I agreed with NK's observation. I'll be blunt here. The US policy has been correctly identified by Ex as naiive. The current POTUS has in Carteresque fashion 'spoken stupidly ' in this crisis,not quite supporting democratic movements ,while at the same time stabbing a staunch ally in the back. Mubarak has been a voice of sanity in a very volatile region for 3 decades despite his strong arm. Further ,Obama did nothing to support the democratic asperations of the Iranian people when they were revolting and getting murdered in the streets by the jackboots of the jihadists . So where does he stand ? Is he for democractic reform if it's a dictator ,but against it if it's a revolt against the jihadists ? I think that's it. Either way his inconsistency is a source of uncertainty that friends and foes will pick up on and weaken us further . |
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 Originally Posted by tomder55
I cannot help but agree with your last point. Unless we Americans speak and do more intelligently than we have in the past many years, things can only get worse for us and our relationships with others. |
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Originally Posted by excon
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Obama has recommended that Mubarak resign and hand over power to a transitional leadership headed by the new VP Omar Suleiman . There is no reason to believe this offer will be accepted. There is also a problem in the fact that the offer violates the Egyptian constitution. The power is supposed to be transferred to the head of the Assembly upon resignation of the President. Maybe the White House forgot to read the Egyptian constitution before making the offer ? We will learn sometime after the noon prayers Mubarak's answer. As of now ,protesters are pouring into Tahrir Square for another day of demonstrations. The Muslim Brotherhood is making their presence known during the riots .
Brothers — distinguishable by their close-cropped beards — dominated the front lines, often lining up to pray for "victory or martyrdom," before throwing themselves into the fray, hurling stones, sticks and firebombs at the attackers while shouting "God is great."
Amr Said, a 41-year-old chemist who said he is a Brotherhood supporter, told The Associated Press in Tahrir Square Friday morning that "our instructions are not to assume a role that is too visible at the moment, and to get along with all other groups including and leftist and liberals. "We also refrain from making our typically brotherhood chants and when one of us does, we quickly shut him up," he said. There were plenty of examples of dictatorships being transitioned peacefully into democracy. Taiwan,Spain ,and the Philippines are examples of this. In those cases the US played a role in helping the transition ,We should've pushed Mubarak harder . Either a jihadist state run by the Brotherhood will emerge ;or that Tienneman scenario will play out. When that happens the revolt will go underground. |
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Not happy about it, however I am not negative about everything that my country does. The way I see it most countries do attempt to do basically the right thing and what applies to any current situation requires action based upon those present circumstances. |
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... If only the State Dept knew what it was doing . The President sent special envoy Frank Wisner(AIG and State Dept veteran) to Egypt to speak to his personal friend Mubarak . He came back and stated that “President Mubarak’s continued leadership is critical — it’s his opportunity to write his own legacy.” He said that Mubarak should remain in power until the Sept elections so there could be a smooth transition. Problem is that is contradictory to the recent statements of the President and Sec State Evita Clintoon. The Sec State said prior to this that Mubarack must step down and hand over control to VP Omar Suleiman and Mohamed Tantawi (in complete violation of the Egyptian Constitution) . Evita reiterated those comments after Wisner's apparent snafu .
It is hardly the first time the Obama administration has seemed uncertain on its feet during the Egyptian crisis, as it struggles to stay on the right side of history and to avoid accelerating a revolution that could spin out of control.
The mixed messages have been confusing and at times embarrassing —
When the first protesters appeared in Tahrir Square, Mrs. Clinton, working off the traditional American script that portrays Mr. Mubarak as a reliable ally in need of quiet, sustained pressure on human rights and political reform, said, “Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people.”
One week later, that script was cast aside for the first time in three decades. On Tuesday night, Mr. Obama and his top national security aides watched Mr. Mubarak’s defiant speech, in which he refused to resign but insisted he had never intended to run for re-election in September. It confirmed the conclusion they had gradually reached as the protest mounted: Instability would reign until the Mr. Mubarak got out of the way. “He needed a push,” said one official who was in the Situation Room with the president. When Mr. Mubarak’s speech was over, Mr. Obama called him, for what turned into a tense 30-minute conversation. Shortly afterward, Mr. Obama appeared in the foyer of the White House to declare that “orderly transition must be meaningful, it must be peaceful, and it must begin now.” He did not press Mr. Mubarak directly to resign, but Mr. Mubarak’s loyalists clearly interpreted it that way. The next day, government supporters were bused into the square and changed what had been a largely peaceful process in a day of rage, stone-throwing, clubbing and arrests, the most violent so far. By Friday, it was clear that Mr. Mubarak would not go gently, which led to the third iteration of the White House policy. In private, the administration worked to peel away Mr. Mubarak’s key supporters in the Egyptian elite. His defense minister, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, went into Tahrir Square, ostensibly to inspect the troops there, but largely to associate himself with the protesters. His appearance, along with a visit to the square by Amr Moussa, the head of the Arab League and a former Egyptian foreign minister under Mr. Mubarak, created the impression of the Egyptian leader’s increasing isolation. Mr. Obama also tried talking about Mr. Mubarak differently, almost in the past tense. He described him as a man who had made “that psychological break” and urged him to ask himself, “How do I leave a legacy behind in which Egypt is able to get through this transformative period?” Administration officials say that in phone calls and e-mails from the White House, the State Department and the Pentagon, they have urged a “council of elders” in Egypt to begin drafting revisions to the Constitution that could be sped through Parliament, while encouraging Mr. Suleiman to jump-start conversations with an array of opposition leaders, including the Muslim Brotherhood, from which some of Al Qaeda’s leadership emerged. “We are not trying to be prescriptive,” a senior Obama adviser said on Saturday. “The Egyptian leadership knows what it needs to do, and they don’t need us to lay it out in detail.” And yet the Obots continue to talk as if by some puppetry they can orchestrate the events unfolding . To make matters worse ,even the NY Slimes can't quite figure out what the Obama position is . Evidently neither can the State Dept. Certainly Egypt has no idea what the President's policy is. |
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Originally Posted by tomder55
When you're BLINDSIDED by your intelligence agencies, after spending BILLIONS upon BILLIONS for intelligence in THAT particular part of the world, it's understandable that you'd act like a deer caught in the headlights. Same thing happened to Bush. The BAD news is, that the BILLIONS we're spending to COUNTER what happened to Bush, isn't COUNTERING squat. excon |
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Waited all day for Mubarak to resign. He didn't... he kicked himself upstairs ,and appointed his Pharaoh in waiting as a caretaker. VP Suleiman," a former army general and intelligence chief " told the crowds of protesters that they got their wish and they should go home now. When they don't ,the new Pharaoh in training will get on his mechanical chariot and send in the camel riders. Meanwhile a man who has no legitimate claim to leadership in Egypt , Mohammed el-Baradei called on the military to force Mubarak's hand. Nice. However, this is a very possible outcome. The military will want to preserve the Nasser regime style of governance. Mubarak has put that at risk. President Obama still talks like he is in control of the course of history . Here is a guy who can't control the message within his administration even when his Sec State and Special Envoy are in the same town. Further ;he has demonstrated that he is more than willing to overlook the horrors of worse dictators than Mubarak in attempt to 'extend the hand of friendship' to the despots. Looking forward for him to get on televison demanding the resignation of Castro ,Chavez ,the Mahdi-hatter in Tehran ,Kim Jong mentally-ILL ,and Hu Jintao. Then I'll believe he gives a damn about the liberty of the people of Egypt. |
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Obama really wants the Muslim Brotherhood to take over and turn Egypt into another Iran. That's why he wants then out now... before proper elections can be arrainged and someone other than the muslim brotherhood terrorist organization can organize to get a chance to be duely elected. Or does he actually believe the country can run on autopilot until that can happen... He still acts more like a muslim than he does a christian. Morons what him out now... but NOBODY discusses exactly WHO is supposed to take over in the vacuum that would result if that actually happened. But then I suppose they Consider Iran... Syria, Lebonan and Yemen to be model societies. |
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Smoothy
Don't you think it is about time Obama did what Mubarak suggested and but out. At the moment what Egypt is moving towards is an orderly transition. This doesn't suit all and it probably won't result in democracy, unless democracy can be intrepreted as an election. However it also means no violent conflict. The last Egyptian president was assassinated, I expect this one wants to avoid going the same way. The whole thing ha sbeen taken over by opportinists. If the egyptians choose to resolve this under their constitution, the rule of law then they should be allowed too. Could you see Obama resigning if a million people and the Chinese leader called for his resignation? |
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