[progunr]

So there are people waging genocide in this world, serial killers wearing their victims' skin for kicks and you believe that Barack Obama is the anti-christ as professed in the bible? What leads you to believe this?

What I said was that he comes much closer to fitting the description of that entity, than he does to fitting the descriptions of Christ.

I myself don't believe he is ether one.

I believe he is a politician, who gained his popularity by being a member of the radical black community. While he climbed his political ladder, using these associates, and his separatist church as tools to gain notability in the radical black community. It worked very well for him.

Now though, in his quest to climb to the very top, he can no longer appeal only to his black separatist base, he has to try to appeal to the entire Country, and this is where all his problems come to light.

[NeedKarma]

Who is saying he is christ or comes close to him anyway? That's just nonsense.

He seems to appeal to a great deal of people. We'll see come election I guess.

[spitvenom]

I think it is so funny that the only thing that people have against Obama is what his rev said. White people get so threatened when a black person speaks the truth. It's so sad that the only argument you have against Obama are the words of someone who is NOT Obama. But he sat in that church for 20 years.

I have listened to my grand parents say some of the most racist things for 30 years and by your logic I should be the most racist person on this earth. And much to my grandparents dismay I have a lot of black friends (best friend since I was 4 is black). I love my grandparents and respect them more then Obama does his Rev. so if I can separate good teachings from bad what makes you think Obama can not?

[progunr]

I think he is very good at separating things... and people.

If he so disagreed with this stuff, why did he stay there for over 20 years?

Churches are not like grandparents, you get to pick your church.

The fact that he picked this one speaks volumes about his personal convictions.

As I said, the young dealing with ignorant grandparents, or even parents, should be enough of a challenge for them. Obama's children have listened to these racial rants ALL of their lives, and he and his wife have allowed it to happen.

They don't even see anything wrong with belonging to this so called Church.

It may not be a problem for you, or his supporters, but I do believe it is, and will be, a problem for the rest of our Nation.

[spitvenom]

Progunr if Obama gets elected what do you think he will do to the nation? Everyone I talk to says he will be bad for the nation but no one will tell me why. So please tell me what the anti-christ is going to do to this nation?

[progunr]

What I believe he would do is move this nation ever so closer to the socialistic values he believes in.

He will tax us into a real depression, he will grow the government, expand entitlements and government programs, attempt to socialize our heath system, he will attempt to negotiate and appease the terrorist leaders, and those are just the obvious things he has expressed himself.

What he has said is bad enough, what may be on his mind, that has not been said, is even more frightening.

[spitvenom]

Progunr I respect that answer most people just say "i don't like him" and that's all I get. If a socialized health care system bring Americans health care I am for it. I can understand why people wouldn't want the leader of America to sit and try to talk to terrorist leaders but has not talking to them worked? Now I am not gullible so I really don't think trying to reason with a terrorist is going to work but nothing else has worked so far.

I think there should be more government programs to help families out. I don't have any kids but if I did it's not like my fiancée or I could stay home with the kid we would have to put out more then $200.00 a week for day care so we could both work and try to live some what comfortably. If we can spend BILLIONS on a war for oil then surely we could have put someone money into helping out American families to get ahead.

[progunr]

Are you really for socialized health care?

Are you THAT impressed with the way our government manages things?

Do you really trust the government to pick your doctor, and decide if your illness is worth spending money on, or that it is more cost effective to just let you die?

What gives you the idea that it is my responsibility to donate to helping you have and raise your children?

It is that mindset that is destroying our country. If the government did not take care of all the people who can't afford to have and raise children, then we would not have so many people having them, when they can't afford it.

Having and raising children should not be a right, guaranteed to you by my tax dollars but thanks to our Government, it is now.

Having and raising children is a responsibility, that you should be personally responsible for. The socialistic view that the government exists to take care of everyone is just wrong, in my opinion of course.

While I do agree, we waste far too much money on foreign lands and problems, that should be devoted to our own nation, that again is a problem with our government and the idea that we are responsible for everyone, and no one is responsible for themselves.

Finally, it is not the governments responsibility to help you get ahead, it is yours. The socialistic policies that have crept into our nation have all but eliminated any personal responsibility. The number of people who actually believe that it is the job of the government to provide for them everything they want or need is disturbing and will eventually lead to the downfall of our nation if we don't put a stop to it.

There you have my conservative view.

I do not intend to convince you, just to perhaps enlighten you.

[speechlesstx]

I think it is so funny that the only thing that people have against Obama is what his rev said. White people get so threatened when a black person speaks the truth. It's so sad that the only argument you have against Obama are the words of someone who is NOT Obama. But he sat in that church for 20 years.

I guess you haven't been paying attention, we've brought out many concerns that have nothing to do with his pastor - his record, his association with unrepentant terrorists and other criminals, his outrageous comments, his thin skin, his inexperience and on and on. His "mentor" Wright was a bonus.

[speechlesstx]

Who is saying he is christ or comes close to him anyway? That's just nonsense.

He seems to appeal to a great deal of people. We'll see come election I guess.

Who? If they haven't called him that they've described him as such. I've already pointed out his wife has said he is "the only one" who understands our problems and our broken souls. Andrew Sullivan paints a shamanistic portrait of the man:

At its best, the Obama candidacy is about ending a war—not so much the war in Iraq, which now has a mo­mentum that will propel the occupation into the next decade—but the war within America that has prevailed since Vietnam and that shows dangerous signs of intensifying, a nonviolent civil war that has crippled America at the very time the world needs it most. It is a war about war—and about culture and about religion and about race. And in that war, Obama—and Obama alone—offers the possibility of a truce.

David Ehrenstein describes him as the 'Magic Negro':

But the same can't be said of most white Americans, whose desire for a noble, healing Negro hasn't faded. That's where Obama comes in... Like a comic-book superhero, Obama is there to help, out of the sheer goodness of a heart we need not know or understand. For as with all Magic Negroes, the less real he seems, the more desirable he becomes. If he were real, white America couldn't project all its fantasies of curative black benevolence on him."

Obama is better than civil rights:

[I]t is beyond debate that an Obama win in 2008 would be by far the best thing that has happened to African-Americans, and to race relations, in more than 50 years.

Walter Shapiro at Salon.com reports that "Paul Tewes, Obama's Iowa coordinator, marveled, "It is something I've never seen before in politics. After people hear him speak, they say that they feel at peace."

People are swooning all over the man (and that doesn't even include his fainters in the audience):

“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere.” —actor George Clooney

“I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.” —actress Halle Berry

“This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better. This young man is capturing audiences of black and brown and red and yellow. If you look at Barack Obama’s audiences and look at the effect of his words, those people are being transformed… A black man with a white mother became a savior to us. A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift America from her fall.” —Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan

And the kicker that would have had a Republican, any Republican, laughed out of the country or hung from the highest tree, by Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Ill as reported in the NY Times:

"I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let's say, blessed and highly favored," Mr. Rush said, chuckling. "That's not routine.

There's something else going on."

What was he suggesting?

"I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered," Mr. Rush said, all other explanations failing. "I'm a preacher and a pastor; I know that that was God's plan. Obama has certain qualities that—I think he is being used for some purpose. I really believe that."

Not to mention, he sends a thrill up Chris Matthews' leg. I told you I come prepared.

[classyT]

Speech,

I agree with you. And speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charismatic speeches up? Wait till someone comes on the scene with some "power" behind the dazzling words. And the WHOLE world will be in awe of him. This is but a glimpse of what is to come. ( sorry didn't mean to change the thread topic.. just my thoughts.)

[speechlesstx]

Speech,

I agree with you. and speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charasmatic speeches up? Wait till someone comes on the scene with some "power" behind the dazzling words. and the WHOLE world will be in awe of him. This is but a glimpse of what is to come. ( sorry didn't mean to change the thread topic..just my thoughts.)

We change the subject all the time so you fit right in :) Actually though it fits right in with the subject, the 'Messiah' is much more of an empty suit than his worshipers realize.

[BABRAM]

and speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charasmatic speeches up?

I saw that gig twice already as voted by the Bible Belt states. His name? George Walker Bush.

We change the subject all the time so you fit right in :) Actually though it fits right in with the subject, the 'Messiah' is much more of an empty suit than his worshipers realize.

Steve, stop capitalizing the word "messiah" in posts that you actually mean to vilify Obama. I doubt seriously that Obama's any more anointed than other candidates, past or present. There's a Jewish proverb, "When the Moshiach comes, all the sick will be healed; only a fool stays a fool."

[speechlesstx]

I saw that gig twice already. His name, George Walker Bush.

Wow Bobby, you think GW gives charismatic speeches? Wonders never cease :D

[BABRAM]

Wow Bobby, you think GW gives charismatic speeches? Wonders never cease :D

Oh! No! I didn't say I thought he was a good communicator, I'm implying that Republicans fell in love with him. And it's bitter and bad when the public is wrong. :)

[inthebox]

Progunr I respect that answer most people just say "i don't like him" and thats all i get. If a socialized health care system bring Americans health care i am for it. I can understand why people wouldn't want the leader of America to sit and try to talk to terrorist leaders but has not talking to them worked? Now I am not gullible so I really don't think trying to reason with a terrorist is going to work but nothing else has worked so far.

I think there should be more government programs to help families out. I don't have any kids but if I did it's not like my fiancee or I could stay home with the kid we would have to put out more then $200.00 a week for day care so we could both work and try to live some what comfortably. If we can spend BILLIONS on a war for oil then surely we could have put someone money into helping out American families to get ahead.

Yup, Obama's universal healthcare is a good thing... NOT


Angry Illinois veterans sneer at VA `snow job' | U.S. Senator Barack Obama


"Durbin noted that veterans have long felt betrayed by the VA--and they have heard promises of reform before. But he said that both senators would be aggressive in making sure the VA follows through. He noted that Obama holds a seat on the Senate's Veterans' Affairs Committee and Durbin on the powerful Appropriations Committee"



Durbin, Obama want VA to explain deaths at Marion hospital - Boston.com

"The most recent revelation that (Veterans Affairs Medical Center) employed a surgeon who had been barred from practicing in another state casts doubt on the adequacy of the VA's system of credentialing and quality control," the letter said"


Maybe if the Democrats allow the taxpayor to keep more of their hard earned money, rather than raising tax rates, they could afford health insurance or put that money into a health savings account.



And this war for oil thing, maybe if the Democratic congress allows us to drill for our own oil, or use more nuclear energy, maybe Middle east oil would not be a national security matter.

[spitvenom]

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

[tomder55]

Everyone I talk to says he will be bad for the nation but no one will tell me why.

Along with the points othrs have made to this question ;even if I agreed with his positions I would havesecond thoughts about supporting anyone who's total experience consists of a few years in the Ill . Legislature and Senate ;and a cup of coffee in the US Senate. Don't forget ;he began running for the Presidency almost the day he began his gig in the US Senate and has spent little time there after his orientation.

Right now John McCain is seriously considering an up and coming rising star in the Republican party for Veep;Bobby Jindal ,Governor of Louisiana. I would advise him to turn it down if offered because he has not been around long enough to demonstate an ability to do the job. I would like first to see his reforms in the State come to fruation before he moves on .

That is the problem with Obama. He never sticks around to build a record worthy of pointing to . Perhaps that is why people look elsewhere to get a measure of the man.

[speechlesstx]

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

Spit, I have no idea what you're referring to.

[inthebox]

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

Not :D

Okay stick your head in the sand, and forget the actual links. That is the problem with Obama, all talk, and an eloquent talker at that. For a lot of people that is enough to convince them, but for the presidency you have to look past all the empty feel good rhetoric and examine and consider the details.


Change of Subject - Observations, reports, tips, referrals and tirades | Chicago Tribune | Blog


If "present" sounds wimpy, that's because it sometimes is. In many cases, according to Paul Green, head of Roosevelt University's School of Public Policy and a longtime student of Illinois' byzantine legislative process, lawmakers who anticipate a tough re-election challenge will vote "present" on a controversial bill they oppose so as not to give their prospective opponents a good club to bash them with.

Obama, however, was in a safe district and never faced a serious challenge for his legislative seat. [****He had no need to shy from hard-line stands on gun control and abortion rights.******] He actually took such stands frequently and is now highly praised by advocates for both causes.

Why would he then vote "present" instead of a resounding "no" on certain bills advanced by lawmakers opposed to abortion rights?


*****--- because Obama had his eye at the presidency from the beginning and knows that his hard line left wing ideology might play well in Chicago, but not among moderates and independents.