[Moparbyfar]

Gen 19:5
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
(KJV)

Lev 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
(KJV)

Lev 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
(KJV)

Matt 19:4
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
(KJV) This statement was made in the context of a question about divorce, but the plain statement remains, so Jesus did address the subject.

Rom 1:24-28
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(KJV)

1 Cor 6:9
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Ah there's no point Galveston1 - I already offered Brian some scriptures to prove homosexuality is not approved of by God but he's either not reading the threads properly or trying to ignore the truth. :(

[Onan]

Well there you have it Brian, plenty to read and think about.

I really wouldn't worry too much about what was written by a paranoid group of people thousands of years ago from their little part of the world. You really have to consider the source. Do you really think we should live our lives from a book that came from the middle east?

You guys have posted some great scriptures and I know you mean well by doing so, but the fact remains that the Bible was written by man.

I also would like to point out for Brian that even if you choose to believe David didn't have that kind of relationship with a man it would have been the lesser of his "sins". David was a heathen. He had wives(as in more than 1) and lovers, and he was a murderer. He was the poster child for just about everything today's christianity preaches against, yet he was a man after Gods own heart. I think it's safe to say, if God accepted David as he was, he shouldn't have a problem with you using the gift he gave you.

[Moparbyfar]

WOW! Imagine if Adam had been gay..? ;)

[Onan]

WOW! Imagine if Adam had been gay...???? ;)

Well being that there was never a time when there was only 2 humans on this earth I don't think it would have been that big a deal if he was gay.. :) :)

We won't go there though, at least not on this thread.

[Moparbyfar]

Well being that there was never a time when there was only 2 humans on this earth I don't think it would have been that big a deal if he was gay..:) :)

We won't go there though, at least not on this thread.

Yeh, you're better suited for the evolution, we are 'monkeys uncle' thread mate!

KABOOM! (Thats just another planet forming out of nowhere.)

[Onan]

Yeh, you're better suited for the evolution, we are 'monkeys uncle' thread mate!

KABOOM! (Thats just another planet forming out of nowhere.)

Truth be told, I usually stay away from that topic because I am not a scientist. It's boring to debate and even more boring to read.

[Onan]

And by the sounds of it you think the same of the bible?

Oh no, not at all. I love reading the Bible. I love reading anything religious. My favorite sites are early jewish writings and early christian writings.

[ordinaryguy]

Oh no, not at all. I love reading the Bible. I love reading anything religious. My favorite sites are early jewish writings and early christian writings.

As in Kabbalists and Gnostics, or earlier than that? Any favorite links you'd suggest?

[Brian24]

Hey guys thinks a lot for the posts. I would just like to say that I read some quotes from a post (by Moparbyfar) saying that being gay is wrong in the bible. Are there any quotes saying it is right to be gay? I know in my heart that god loves me althrough I am gay I am just looking to see what the bible has to say. Can any answer my question?

[Tuscany]

I firmly believe that if you live your life to the fullest and you welcome God into your life you will go to heaven. God loves everyone, it is people who chose to hate. I remember when I was in college there was a guy standing in the student center preaching. I stopped to listen (it always facinates me how people can make religon such a public thing, I feel that religon is more personal. But that is just my opinion). Anyway, he said and I quote "Do you have a tatoo, have you had sex before marriage, are you on birth control, are you a homosexual, if you answered yes to any of these you are going to hell."

Imagine my shock, I have 5 tatoos (4 at the time), I was on birth control, and my favorite Aunt is gay. Lord I thought this is IT! God is going to strike me dead right here in the student center. And what about poor Aunt Daphne... did she know she was going to hell.

Ok so some of this I thought was comical, but I wanted the opinion of someone I trusted. I went to the Sister who ran my church. I told her what I had heard. She laughed outloud. She told me that as long as people let God into their hearts, God would let you into his house when your time came. So, love yourself, love God, and cherish the time you have on earth.

[Allheart]

Ok so some of this I thought was comical, but I wanted the opinion of someone I trusted. I went to the Sister who ran my church. I told her what I had heard. She laughed outloud. She told me that as long as people let God into their hearts, God would let you into his house when your time came. So, love yourself, love God, and cherish the time you have on earth.

And here my friends is THE answer.

Bless one and all and bless Tuscany for sharing.

[Onan]

As in Kabbalists and Gnostics, or earlier than that? Any favorite links you'd suggest?

I don't know why I didn't leave a link in the first place. These 2 sites are great. It's where I do most of my reading.

Early Jewish Writings--Tanakh, Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, and More

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

[Credendovidis]

As a gay man and Christian I was told by alot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that alot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

Brian : based on the claimed benevolence of the deity called "God" there is no reason to assume that personal sexual preference is of any importance in that decision. The existence of "God" is however an entirely different matter, and is open to personal interpretation of the validity of the Biblical scriptures.
.

[Allheart]

Brian : based on the claimed benevolence of the deity called "God" there is no reason to assume that personal sexual preference is of any importance in that decision. The existence of "God" is however an entirely different matter, and is open to personal interpretation of the validity of the Biblical scriptures.
.

I do agree that God will review our scorecard so to speak at the end, but here's my one problem, some people say it is a preference... and none of us know that for sure.


But great post Cred.

[Credendovidis]

... some people say it is a preference ... and none of us know that for sure.

Indeed : some even argue that. But why would a deity be bothered by that?
How does my preference/disposition for hetero-sexual contacts make me a better or worse human being than one who prefers homo-sexual contacts?
.
What is the relevance of sexual disposition if related to how one lives his/her life?
.

[Fr_Chuck]

Because one preference is natural, and the other is not, one is accepted by God and the other is not. Using that, one could say why would God care if I steal or not, one would say, I prefer to steal not work for a living, so why should God care. Why would God care if someone preferred to have sex with children that is just their preference right ?

It is because there is a moral authority, Gods rules, people may not like them or accept them, but they are there. So that is why God does not accept it.

[Allheart]

Because one preference is natural, and the other is not, one is accepted by God and the other is not. Using that, one could say why would God care if I steal or not, one would say, I prefer to steal not work for a living, so why should God care. Why would God care if someone prefered to have sex with children that is just thier preference right ?

It is because there is a moral authority, Gods rules, people may not like them or accept them, but they are there. So that is why God does not accept it.

Fr. Chuck,

I hope you know how much I adore and resepct you. You were there for me and I will NEVER forget it.

But with most of what you shared, there is a choice involved. Choice to steal or not.
Being gay, may not be a choice. I honestly don't think it is. And the pain I see on peoples faces just kills me because of their inner turmoil.

Now I am not saying to just dive into it - but perhaps seek religious guidance on maybe how to live with something you don't have control over.

[Fr_Chuck]

That is OK, I have gay friends, and I know they are saved and have accepted Christ, They know where I stand, but they are OK with it, since they know I don't have anything against them, just the sexual acts they do.

But there are some that because of some problem can't control their stealing, ( but it is still stealing and they will go to court)
And there are people in prison because they can't stop thierself from wanting sex with children,

So merely having that desire still does not mean it is right, what and how we control those feelings is what determines who we are

[Allheart]

That is ok, I have gay friends, and I know they are saved and have accepted Christ, They know where I stand, but they are ok with it, since they know I don't have anything against them, just the sexual acts they do.

but there are some that because of some problem can't control thier stealing, ( but it is still stealing and they will go to court)
and there are people in prison because they can't stop thierself from wanting sex with children,

So merely having that desire still does not mean it is right, what and how we control those feelings is what determines who we are

All of what you say is so very true. And I think God knows how they suffer.

Fr. Chuck, why are gays so highlighted more so then the other "sins" committed. Does that question make sense?

Thanks :)

[marvin_082500]

As a gay man and Christian I was told by alot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that alot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

Gay have a place in heaven.. I Tim. 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto knoeledge of the truth."