As a gay man and Christian I was told by a lot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that a lot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

Have they completely accepted Christ as their savior?

It is not loving everyone, it is not doing a lot of good works, but it is their love of Christ that matters.

It does say several places that homosexual sex is a sin, some will try and play with words, but it is. But so is a lot of other things.

The issue that I have is most do not want to admit it is a sin, and really something that needs to be repented and asked forgivness for.

I know many who have said they have accepted Christ as their savior, Jesus accepts everyone as they are, no matter what type of sinner we are. And it will be between them personally and God as to if and how he convicts them to change.

So only God knows if they really accepted Christ as their savior. But I will take them at their word, so since everyone that has accepted Christ is saved, if they have accepted Christ they are saved.

So to sum it up, the bible says it is a sin, so is adultry, sex outside of marriage, cheating on your taxes, not properly paying your pastor ( is my church reading this) and a ton of other things many people do all the time, Man is a sinner, we all sin, some more than others, but we all sin,
The goal as a saved Chrsitian is to try and live the best life we can, it will never be perfect, since only Christ was perfect.

I agee with what fr said, but if we truly love God then we shouldn't do things that grieve His heart, and I still need God to work on some areas in my life. Like fr said were not perfect, but we know what we do is wrong because the Holy spirit convicts us, yet we still keep sinning, guess we'll never be perfect until we go to heaven

Rom 1:24-27

1 Tim 1:9-11

Jude 7 (compare Gen 19:4,5,24,25)

1 Cor 6:9-11 this scripture proves that it is possible for anyone, regardless of their previous unclean practices to change their ways and enjoy a clean standing with God.

The good news is that the term "hell" is actually symbolic, and since our grand creator is a God of love (1 John 4:8) does it seem reasonable to you that He would torture man forever? Divne justice? I think not.

I was reading this on the news and thought of this thread.
BBC NEWS | Magazine | What does the Bible actually say about being gay?
It seems to be a nice summary of both sides. I thought I would post it up to aid discussion but I won't comment further myself as it is not my place. Hope it helps :)

Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin. For Christians, sex before valid marriage is where the sin is.

Hi Brian -

If okay with you, I would like to give you a hug. :)

Brian, that is up to you and God. Sometimes asking questions such as that, is like asking
A heavy person if you are eating too much and is that why you are overweight?? Does, that make sense?

Please know this, God LOVES YOU!! Period and me too. I know a whole lot of Gay people a head of line way before me.

I had sex before I was married (age 21, but still is a sin).

I think each person in God's eyes is unique and He doesn't have us all in groups. Gays over there, Catholics over here, Atheist over there, and so on. He knows you heart.

I know that could be a troubling thought, and we all, have things to work on. I tell you what, I am more afraid for those who so quickly want to condemn someone to hell, then being punished for loving someone.

Is being Gay a sin? I don't know? But I get too annoyed to even hear any reason why it might be because people are so quick to jump the beuatiful Gay community becuae they have issues of ugliness themselves.

It makes me angry as heck (which by the way - anger is a sin) - That anyone on this earth could dare and make another feel so bad about themselves.

Okay my vent is over.

You quietly get on your knees and pray. Talk to God, just like a Father.
I share this with you. Each day, if possible, find some quiet time, where it is just you and God, or just listen to this beautiful video and clear your mind and have peace.

Never ever let others judge you, which by the way is a sin, and may prevent them from going to heaven ;)

More hugs for you.
Allheart



****hugs******

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian24

As a gay man and Christian I was told by alot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that alot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

---

To ineedhelpfast - see my post to Niki143 Why did God make hell?

Look at it this way: God is Supposed to be omnipresent (everywhere), omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing). So if he is "all knowing" then he should have known that you and millions of other people would be homosexuals. So if he does throw you into hell that would be his own fault for not using his "all powerful" abilities to make you not be homosexual. If I was God I'd let anyone into heaven who gave me the proper worship and honor. Whether they were gay or not, if you loved me (I'm playing god remember) that's all that would matter. But the Christian god doesn't seem to be like that. You're supposed to be his child right? Well, answer this. If your child was a homosexual, would you throw them into a pit of fire? If so, then you shouldn't be a parent. If not, then why would god do that to his own "children"

There are a few questionable relationships in the Bible.

I think before anyone answers this question they should do a little research on the relationships between Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, and Danial and Ashpenaz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian24

As a gay man and Christian I was told by alot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that alot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

---

Dear Brian,
Isn't the Christian (NT) God a god of love, of benevolence? A god that has "nothing" with sex, as it is neither male or female itself?
Why would such a god even consider your sexual preference as a prohibition to enter heaven?
Any position pro or contra anything can be supported with quotes form the Bibe.
Example : You want war and suffering? Quote from the OT. You want love and peace? Quote from the NT.
One Bible, two totally opposing instructions!
Don't worry too much about going to heaven or not. Ask yourself if you even want to go to heaven if the god in charge of that heaven opposes homosexuality (and by doing so actually suggests that he made a "construction mistake" but blames you for your sexual disposition.
Better still ask yourself if such a god can really exist, or that it is just a chimera created by goodwilling people who wanted to serve humanity with creating some guidelines how to live, but went overboard with the framework that supported their mythology...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onan

There are a few questionable relationships in the Bible.

I think before anyone answers this question they should do a little research on the relationships between Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, and Danial and Ashpenaz.

---

Really no, these are a few that the pro gay groups have tried to use over the years but there is no proof and the real issue is that people today want to judge relastionhips and customs from their time to customs of ours and it just will not work that way.

But we have to remember that God is a God of love and FORGIVENESS but he is also a just God and one who is also a God of his word.
IT is not God that dooms us to hell, but Satan, and ourself. We are told his HOLY WORD, we are told what to do to be saved. And what actions are acceptable to him and which ones are not.

So it is us, that decide our fate. And God does not want any to perish, but it is our actions that decide it.

Quote:

---

Really no, these are a few that the pro gay groups have tried to use over the years but there is no proof and the real issue is that people today want to judge relastionhips and customs from their time to customs of ours and it just will not work that way.

---

It's funny you say that because that is the same reason I don't think anything in the Bible is for us today. Everything in it was written for people back then. Everything explained in it was by people who didn't know any better. For example back then if a volcano erupted it was an angry God who did it.

Quote:

---

the real issue is that people today want to judge relastionhips and customs from their time to customs of ours and it just will not work that way.

---

I'm afraid that's not the case at all for example with the Ruth and Naomi, in Ruth 1:14 the hebrew word "clave" used in that verse, is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24: " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I think that's pretty clear. So I'm not judging by today's customs, I'm using their own customs. If the word meant something back then, that's what it means.

As far as the David and Jonathan? C'mon they did some things I wouldn't chalk up to customs. I don't think getting naked, hugging and kissing between guys back then was looked upon any differently than it is today. I hardly think it was their way of saying hello. If someone were to see something like that then, they would think the same thing we would today. Wow, they must be lovers.

Now I will admit the case of Danial and Ashpenaz is a bit weird because they were both eunuchs. I read somewhere though that if males are castrated after puberty, they still retain sexual drive. So it's not totally out of the question.

Ruth and naomi were daugter in-law and mother in-law, ruth married boaz... david and jonathan were best friends almost like friends, as it says in prverbs there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother... I really haven't done much research on daniel and ashpenaz, but I will get back to you when I have.

Sin is defined as transgression of the law. Any transgression other than the sin against the Holy Ghost is forgivable, but has to be forsaken after forgivness. Same gender sex is probalby the most basic rejection of God possible. The first commandment to man was to replenish the earth. Something not possible by one gender. Same gender sex says to God, "you got it all wrong". God calls it confusion.

I have asked this question before but here we go again. Where in the bible does it talk about homosexuals? Some of you have told me that there are homosexuals in the bible like David and Johnathan. Where in the bible are they and why do some people say that homosexual is against god when it is in the bible? Can anyone answer that?

Quote:

---

ruth and naomi were daugter in-law and mother in-law, ruth married boaz

---

This would not prevent a relationship, nor would it explain why the writers used the word they used in that passage above.

Quote:

---

david and jonathan were best friends almost like friends, as it says in prverbs there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother

---

The bible describes Davids love for Jonathan stronger(better if you will) than any love he ever had for a woman. I have had many male friends but I can ashure you I never felt that way for any of them.

Quote:

---

Same gender sex is probalby the most basic rejection of God possible.

---

God gave the gift of love, correct? How is that gift different if it is with the same sex? Why is someone expected to turn from the gift of love because somewhere along the line humans became homophobic? The thing I find funny is outside the OT there really isn't much said about this subject. Jesus surly never taught against same sex marriage. I would think if it were that important Jesus/God would have said something about it during one of his sermons. Again I have to remind you that it is not a choice it's who they are. If it was something that was that important to God he in his all knowing and all powerful glory would have created us differently or made sure there was no way in hell people of the same sex were attracted to each other.

Gen 19:5
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
(KJV)

Lev 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
(KJV)

Lev 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
(KJV)

Matt 19:4
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
(KJV) This statement was made in the context of a question about divorce, but the plain statement remains, so Jesus did address the subject.

Rom 1:24-28
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(KJV)

1 Cor 6:9
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(KJV)
(definition of abusers of themselves with mankind)
733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace);
From 730 and 2845; a sodomite:
KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

Onan and a few others wish to pervert the word of God but why I can say his ideas are not only silly but not possible, is the bible has never held back telling us of the sin of the early leaders, We know there were many sins of the flesh, murders, and more. So from seeing this, if there was a sinful relastionship going on, they would have told us. As an example of how they were either punished for their sin, or forgiven when they repented.

But you were given some examples, it is clear beyond a doubt it is a sin, and that of course is the issue I have with MOST gays, they will not just admit this is a sin. The drunk or the person living in adultry, all will normally admit if they are living in sin, and not try to change God's word to make it appear they are living God's will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Don't worry too much about going to heaven or not.

---

Yes. First things first. The best preparation for the next life is to live this one wisely and well.

How you interpret and act on your sexual urges has far more serious consequences for this life than for the next. Whether you're hetero- or homo-, if you live a long time, sex will probably cease to be much of a concern long before you die. Keep it in perspective.