[KBC]

Hi Moynecan,

That does sound like you're dealing with a little boy, not a man. If you've put up with it for the past 3-4 years, I don't think you're being touchy. You are doing more than him, and he's lying so he can fool around as much as possible. Well, that's a kid for you. Some women I know keep right on wiping their husband's butt. Three that I know of are in their seventies. The men don't always lie, but there is a type of "dance" they all do. They know what will push the wife's buttons. They seem to know exactly what to do to avoid just about any chore.

The sad thing is that although you or I might see most of the behavior as disrespect, the women have said things to me like, "oh, but I love Jon!" Or, "I know he sounds mean when he yells at me, but he doesn't mean it," Oh, he'll do anything I ask him to!" She doesn't ask though because he's tired, or he would probably start yelling or her faults would be laid bare at the dinner table by him (but that's her fault too).

It's both childish and RUDE and disrespectful. A wife is not a servant. Neither is a husband for that matter. There are women who pull the same stuff on their mates. The question is, how do you short-circuit the crap and get some respect? Make him accountable. If you see dog doo when you go to turn on the water; go get him and ask why he missed it? If you find your tool missing, demand that he buy you a new one (or find the old one), right away, within the hour. Have a friend come to check the fluid levels in the cars. Make sure he understands why the friend is helping you...to make sure you can do it yourself.

Long ago, I got tired of doing laundry for my ungrateful guy. I stopped washing his, I just did mine and the baby's. My therapist actually suggested it; when she got married, it was with the understanding that she did not expect him to wash her clothes. Unfortunately, my husband and I were the same size and he began wearing my jeans, t-shirts and socks. So I resumed doing his laundry but asked my mom to come over to help me with it. She was extremely vocal and wanted to know why he didn't wash, fold and put away his own clothes? Then, I took a break from his laundry again and he actually did know how! Laundry was one of very few battles I won. I eventually left him for someone more androgynous.

You know he lies. He knows he lies. Let him know loud and clear that you are not able to, at this point believe all of what he says. Tell him what you expect from him, and let him know that there will be consequences if you do not get what you expect. Uphold the consequences! Don't let him intimidate you or lie his way out of his own mess. And, you are such a ? No way! Please don't wipe his hairy butt on up into your seventies. A marriage is generally considered a contract between two consenting adults. Ask that he behaves like the other adult in your marriage.
Simone

Although I agree with stringers response, this is a powerful post, I am a little put out by the contempt for a males needs/responses.

I am a single male, with a past smiler to this 'males' present day.If MY wife had problems with something I did or didn't do, she would communicate to no end, her will and needs.

If he lies, is it for 'attention' or a need unspoken?

Does he probably need to grow up?

Can the OP learn coping skills towards a better marriage? OR get divorced because of the original idea(ABUSE)

Contempt for men who haven't a clue as to what they need is immature itself,as well as selfish, if you really love and care for this person (marriage=what?)(Love=what?)Where is the willingness to see beyond the personal 'quirks' of the one, for the needs of the unit?

In today's society, we see divorce rates higher because of this very issue, and for what?Someone's views,and pasts influencing another's,stating,"This worked for me!!!"He did this,so I found the next best thing, who does that"

My question is,is the grass really greener on the other side, or do we grow and compromise, and accept the new partners "quirks" better than the last ones,being less critical of them for whatever reason.

A lier needs to look for a reason to change,pain is the only thing that brought ME to look for answers(not from being a lier,but a 'lazy,no good,uncaring,selfish ex husband'),I would like to help others NOT go down this road if I can, by writing to peoples posts and asking questions,continued dialog and getting responses from them! Not other members who can't argue FACTS, but simply disagree to disagree.

KEN

[simoneaugie]

You're right guys, people are complex. Understanding the quirks of the opposite sex isn't automatic. My anger towards the "abusive" behavior comes from my mother. She was raised in the south. As a child she was assigned endless duties from sanding walls to rolling her parent's cigarettes. All the while, she saw her dad sitting, watching TV or whatever he felt like doing.

Anyone can become addicted to TV. The funny thing is that I was raised in a household where watching the TV was a family thing. We decided as a group what we would watch. After the show was over, the TV was turned off and together, we discussed what we had seen. I'm grateful for the perspective that has afforded me, but, my skin crawls if I am in someone else's house and their TV is left on all day. If there are males sitting to watch it I can become very angry, especially if the females are fixing food, doing dishes and supervising the kids.

The point is, people are not only different, they are fragile. Protecting the self is vital to continued sanity. The ways we end up protecting ourselves can get twisted. What is sad is that Moynekin, and other women (and men) like her even have to ask, to question themselves when something hurts. We so often wonder if it's something we are doing wrong. We are taught in our upbringing to behave in a certain way. I was taught that it's normal to be angry at men all the time, but wrong to question anything they do, especially if it is hurtful to me. That teaching does not inspire growth. Talking to you guys does, thanks.

[Stringer]

You're right guys, people are complex. Understanding the quirks of the opposite sex isn't automatic. My anger towards the "abusive" behavior comes from my mother. She was raised in the south. As a child she was assigned endless duties from sanding walls to rolling her parent's cigarettes. All the while, she saw her dad sitting, watching TV or whatever he felt like doing.

Anyone can become addicted to TV. The funny thing is that I was raised in a household where watching the TV was a family thing. We decided as a group what we would watch. After the show was over, the TV was turned off and together, we discussed what we had seen. I'm grateful for the perspective that has afforded me, but, my skin crawls if I am in someone else's house and their TV is left on all day. If there are males sitting to watch it I can become very angry, especially if the females are fixing food, doing dishes and supervising the kids.

The point is, people are not only different, they are fragile. Protecting the self is vital to continued sanity. The ways we end up protecting ourselves can get twisted. What is sad is that Moynekin, and other women (and men) like her even have to ask, to question themselves when something hurts. We so often wonder if it's something we are doing wrong. We are taught in our upbringing to behave in a certain way. I was taught that it's normal to be angry at men all the time, but wrong to question anything they do, especially if it is hurtful to me. That teaching does not inspire growth. Talking to you guys does, thanks.

I think that your comments are good ones simoneaugie, I am sorry that you were raised in this manner. Hopefully today we can be a little more progressive and understand each other more. Makes you wonder... where did all those "old" sayings come from? Such as; "You can't live with them and you can't live without them.." "Change what you can, give me strength to live with the rest..."? (Not verbatim)

[Moynecan]

At first, when we married, my husband told me the women stay in the kitchen and chat and clean and cook (he's from the country), the men go out back and play with cars. I let him know real quick, not in my household. I pay the mortgage...you do the cleaning. You pay the bills...I do the cleaning. This is strictly 50/50!

Aside from little stuff, is he doing his part? Does he seem to be honest with the important stuff?

This household used to be 50/50 without the little reminders I have to give him (I refuse to call it nagging because I will mention the neglected chore to him once, and again in a day or two if it hasn't been done. If it still hasn't been done, then I either do it myself or threatenen to have it done by an outside source. That seems to get his attention), with his responsibilities being the outside of the house and mine being the inside. Now, I go about my business with my chores, no reminders needed, while he does work on the laptop. Oh, he'll spend an hour or so outside on a weekend morning doing God-knows-what ... and yet, the dog poop lays there, completely overlooked.

The important stuff? I don't know. I have a really hard time believing what he says now. I'll explain that in my next post. We have a problem here.

[Moynecan]

OK, here's what, I believe, started it all:

About 3 years ago, we decided to quit smoking. We also decided it was best that we did not quit at the same time, because if we did, one of us would be in prison for murder. Since he was having blood pressure issues, he would go first.

He used the patch, but was having a difficult time. He's from the UK, came to the States in 1999, and smoked "rollies." Those are awful roll-your-own smokes. Anyway, I was practically a saint (even if I do say so myself) in supporting him. I still smoked, and offered to go outside & smoke or not smoke around him at all, but he always told me it was OK, that it didn't bother him. I put everything I had into supporting him. I let him take his anger out on me, say the most ridiculous things to me, put up with fitful nights trying to sleep, all knowing that it was because he was quitting a 40+ year habit.

Slowly, I could see the change. His mood was better, not just sometimes, but all the time. He was walking more upright, taller, not like he's just dropped a quarter on the ground. And he was more affectionate in the little things, like looking at me while we talked, not looking down to roll a smoke while we talked. I bragged about him to everyone that would listen, I was so proud. I was happy that he was going to lead a healthier life. That we both were.

He finally quit. It was my turn. I smoked my last cigarette on October 28th, 2005 and started the patch. He was very supportive to me, as well. But I am a very determined person ... when I'm done with something, there's no turning back.

About 6 months later, while at work (we worked together), he opened a drawer looking for a pen, forgetting that his pack of tobacco was there. He saw that I had seen it and tried to tell me that it wasn't his, etc. I just about came unglued. I knew he was lying.

Then I realized how he'd been acting towards me in the past few weeks. He'd talk to me from across the room, not give me a kiss hello when he came home from work, be very eager to go on little errands for me, etc. It's because he didn't want me to smell the smoke on him.

I know how hard it is to quit smoking. I can understand and get past a little backsliding. But to lie to me, DENY that he'd been doing it and then try to make me feel as I were going CRAZY ... that really pisses me off.

He eventually quit, but the trust I had in him diminished. I couldn't believe a word he said.

This year, in late September, my in-laws flew out from the UK for vacation. We decided to rent an RV and drive up to Yellowstone. My sister-in-law is the only smoker. I asked my husband if that was going to bother him & he assured me that, no, it wouldn't. "I haven't smoked in 2 years," he said. "I'll be fine."

We had a wonderful trip. I must admit, though, that I watched him when he was around his sister. He seemed to be OK.

About a month ago, I caught him. He was out in the shed working on his hobby. I came out to ask him something and he stood up, while turning his back to me. He was trying to pocket a lighter. I asked what he was doing & he said, "nothing." He tried to turn around to face me but it was very unnatural, the way he did it. Then, I looked at the work table and saw it ... a Diet Pepsi can with ashes all around the rim. Again, I almost came unglued, not because he was smoking, but because he denied doing it.

And again, I thought back over the past few weeks and how he'd not kissed me hello, talked to me from across the room, etc.

He said it was because of his sister. Frankly, I had come to the point where I couldn't care less about his reason, excuses, whatever. To me, they were all lies.

So, you see, this is where it started. And I don't know how the hell I'm going to ever trust him again.

[simoneaugie]

Wow, you figured it out. It sounds like he isn't ready to quit. Have the two of you talked about that without anger? Nicotine is a drug. Nicotine is a drug more addicting than heroin. He had the rolling activity to give up too. Drugs make people do the stupidest things, even lie to a spouse they very much respect.

Forgive the lies! Sit and talk with him about the incredibly addictive nature of everything surrounding the smoking habit. You said that you were supportive while he was quitting. It sounds, from your description that you went the extra mile and then some. He needs your support now, whether he is smoking or not!

I understand your feelings about lies, about the people who tell them. Lies are like smoking or chewing fingernails though. They become a habit. So, I'll say it again. Forgive the lies. Accept that he is a smoker until he makes up his mind to quit. Tell him that he is forgiven and that future lies aren't necessary. You are his partner, his friend and love him in spite of his faults. I think things will get much better in all areas once this issue is addressed.

[Moynecan]

Have the two of you talked about that without anger?

Yes, we have. A few times. Just when I think we're on the same page about it, he does something dishonest. Frustrating. :mad: