[NeedKarma]

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.

[kindj]

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.

I think you are correct.

If I understand the generally accepted definitions correctly (and please let me know if I don't), then an atheist staunchly believes that there is no God, and an agnostic is one who feels that humanity cannot say with any certainty whether God exists or not. They don't preclude the possibility, just the ability to know.

Am I right?

[tatertot]

Why does someone have to be all-knowing to believe that something does not exist? Do you believe that the tooth fairy exist? No? Are you all-knowing? No one has to prove a negative.

I can safely say that because I don't all the knowledge there is to know in the universe that I Don't KNOW if the tooth fairy exists. I have never seen or experience her but She could be on planet pluto for all I know... Niether you or I can prove she Does not exist..
You better of believing in the tooth fairy than believing in your "Athiest" RELIGION because it a zero proof or basis.. lol

[tatertot]

I think you are correct.

If I understand the generally accepted definitions correctly (and please let me know if I don't), then an atheist staunchly believes that there is no God, and an agnostic is one who feels that humanity cannot say with any certainty whether God exists or not. They don't preclude the possibility, just the ability to know.

Am I right?

Thant is correct! There a people who believe there is a God and those that don't know if there is a god (agnostic) and the ones that say god does NOT exist are Believers of a Religion called "Athiesm"

[NeedKarma]

and the ones that say god does NOT exist are Believers of a Religion called "Athiesm"

No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.

[jillianleab]

tatertot, do you believe in Zeus? As in, Zeus, the god?

[tatertot]

No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.

I can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion. So You my friend, are RELIGIOUS because it is impossible for you to prove that does not god exists, but you choose to BELIEVE that. So that makes it a RELIGIOUS belief.

[Capuchin]

i can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion. So You my friend, are RELIGIOUS because it is impossible for you to prove that does not god exists, but you choose to BELIEVE that. So that makes it a RELIGIOUS belief.

Lack of evidence is evidence of lack.

[NeedKarma]

tatertot disagrees: Don't try and convince people of your "athiest" religious beliefs either because they are very irrational.. lol

Just a quick question - if you are not an atheist how can you speak with conviction as to what one believes?

[tatertot]

No, not at all. Atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't bother to ever give it a thought.

Lol... aaaahhhh yah! You people just crack me up! "athiest couldnt care less about religion and dont give it a though"?. lol YOU obviously you must not be an atheist then because you sure do spend A lot of time on it. Not only do you give religion "a thought" you actually go to the lengths of actually signing up for a web site, spend all day on your computer discussing it and you are on eeeevery ffffrigging discusion there is about religion I have seen on this site. Lol are you for real? So your condescending remarks a just damn funny because that just make you sound so confused.
It takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is one so by that token I would say; You are the most religious, close minded person I have encounter in my whole life and YOU are the one who has been trying to shove your baseless Athiestic Religious beliefs on everyone. So do me a favor and believe what you believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Coz really, I couldn't give a rat's as* what you believe in and I don't think any other Christain does either because I have not seen anyone on this site "forcing" you to believe in GOD. So take your OWN advice and don't stop forcing your religion on other people...

[kindj]

I think we're splitting too many hairs here.

Why don't we stick to the original issue and quit attacking each other?

[jillianleab]

My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering...

[kindj]

"tatertot disagrees: you obviously dont know the meaning of this expression because that does not even apply.."

Personal attacks seem to be your preferred method.

I guess I'm about done with you.

[inthebox]

lol ... aaaahhhh yah! you people just crack me up! "athiest couldnt care less about religion and dont give it a though" ??????...lol YOU obviously you must not be an athiest then coz you sure do spend ALOT of time on it. Not only do you give religion "a thought" you actually go to the lengths of actually signing up for a web site, spend all day on your computer discussing it and you are on eeeevery ffffrigging discusion there is about religion i have seen on this site. lol r you for real?? So your condescending remarks a just damn funny cos that just make you sound so confused.
It takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is one so by that token i would say; You are the most religious, close minded person i have encounter in my whole life and YOU are the one who has been trying to shove your baseless Athiestic Religious beliefs on everyone. So do me a favor and believe what you believe and i will believe what i want to believe. Coz really, i couldnt give a rat's as* what you believe in and i dont think any other Christain does either because i have not seen anyone on this site "forcing" you to believe in GOD. So take your OWN advice and dont stop forcing your religion on other people...

I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.





Grace and Peace

[jillianleab]

**Cough cough** TROLL! **Cough cough**

It might be time to use than handy "block" feature...

[tatertot]

My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering....

Oh my bad I totally missed your question, jilly I did not see it. But yes I will answer your question: no I do not believe in Zeus reason being I don't know if he exists. Can I say he does not exist? No certainly not because like I said in my argument unless I have all absolute knowledge of everything that is in the universe, then I can not make an absolute statement that Zeus does not exist. So maybe he deos exists like I told your home boy.. lol needkarma Zeus maybe chilling with tooth fairy on saturn for all I know.. does that answer your question.

[NeedKarma]

I also vote for troll Jillean.

[jillianleab]

Your argument still violates basic logic. Look at your first sentence:

For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing

You contend one cannot make an absolute statement (of any kind) unless they are all-knowing. Yet you say god exists, right? How can you make such an absolute statement unless you are all knowing? So I propose your initial statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement unless they are all knowing" is a false statement. If, by chance, you do not personally believe beyond all doubt (the Christian) god exists, then you are not a Christian, and this entire argument is moot. But I'm assuming you consider yourself a Christian.

Do a Google search for "The square of oppositions"; your statement is a "E" statement, and it is FALSE; therefore, my statement, "one can make an absolute statement without being all knowing" is the "A" statement - it must be true.

According to your logic, no one can ever assert an absolute, because none of us are all-knowing. You cannot deny the existence of Zeus, or the invisible, odorless, tasteless, silent pink unicorn which follows your every move. In the same token, you cannot CONFIRM the existence of anything - because you are not all-knowing.

There's also a violation in logic of god being both omnipotent and omniscient, but I pointed that out in another thread.

Beyond all of that, by saying you do not believe in Zeus because you don't know for sure if he exists indicates you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY he can exist. So you admit there is the possibility another god exists. That violates your theology. Bad Christian, BAD!

So, are you a bad Christian who acknowledges there could be other gods, or have you made a flawed logical argument?

[deist]

Dawkins is in a minute minority of non-Christians and I"m sure he knows it.

Actually christians are in the minority. There are more people of no religion or other religions than there are christians.

[tatertot]

[QUOTE=inthebox]I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.

Inthebox. I agree with you 100%. It is through FAITH that we believe in Christ. I am a born again christain and Christ has saved me from literary death and I have had personal encounter with him that has made him real to me and that is why I worship him. I Was just wanting to point out to these so called "athiests" that what they believe in is also a religios belief because it is not scientific fact. Since the ahtiests on this sight have an air of superiority because they equate atheism to interlect which is bolony. I just wanted to prove that even a so called "christian dummy" can also interlectually argue against their religious beliefs. I know it is a waist of time to argue with people about God because until they soften their hearts to let Him is reaveal Himself to them through the holy sprit it is just dead ended. But I am just trying to make a point because their condescending remarks about "religious people" are quite ironic.. lol because they are just as religious as any other religion. ;)