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-   -   Follow-up to "Religion must be destroyed" (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=140880)

  • Oct 15, 2007, 08:40 AM
    kindj
    Follow-up to "Religion must be destroyed"
    Found this interesting blog today. It addresses the same subject we discussed earlier.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    David Burchett
    Author and Speaker

    Is "Christian Intellect" an Oxymoron?

    Warning: The following post may (or, sadly, may not) contain humor. This blog was produced in a program where irony and satire are processed. May contain sarcasm fragments. If you are allergic to humor or attempts at humor please avoid this product.

    Richard Dawkins is an atheist who loves to denigrate Christian intellect. In fact, for Dawkins the very phrase “Christian intellect” would be oxymoronic. When asked what the main difference between believers and atheists was, Dawkins had a quick answer: "Well, we're bright."
    I took that as I hope Dawkins intended it. I laughed. Because he surely does not believe that every single Christian in the world is dim-witted. Then again, perhaps he does. If Richard Dawkins genuinely believes that Christians are that intellectually challenged perhaps he should start a business geared toward people of faith. When we struggle with the difficult tasks of life like getting dressed or balancing a checkbook we could simply go to www.we-are-bright.com (not an actual site for any believers reading this) and get a real atheist to help us figure it out. Sample weblog…
    Believer: “Help me bright people. I am locked out of my convertible, it is starting to rain, and the top is down!”
    Bright Person: “No problem, still learning to walk upright religious person. Just reach inside and unlock the door.”
    Believer: “Oh thank you, smarter than me person!”

    Dawkins is not alone in believing that the average Christian is a nugget or two short of a Happy Meal. Here are some titles from blogs and websites (my comments in italics). Many I could not use because this is a family blog.

    Stupid Christians index – Didn’t make the list…note to self…try harder
    GOP operatives exploiting stupid Christians…That is so not true. Isn’t that right, Mr.Rove?
    All Christians are idiots – Maybe today Diogenes the Cynic would be carrying his lantern looking for one smart Christian instead of an honest man.
    Amazingly Stupid Christians – Premiering next week on Fox!
    I am sick and tired of stupid Christians – Me too.
    Stupid Christians are ruining the world – Don’t look now but they are getting lots of help.
    101 Reasons to Hate Those Stupid Christians – My favorite. This guy is calling Christians stupid and he has 12 reasons listed on a website entitled 101 reasons. Hmmm. Perhaps he could also get some help from the folks at we-are-bright.com.

    I do have one observation from visiting these websites. Get spell check! I began to think the cows from the Chick-fil-a billboards were typing these blogs and posts. Not a lot of communication is going on at most of these sites. Here is a typical exchange:
    “You are a stupid (bleeping) Christian!”
    “Well, I may be stupid but at least I am not going to hell.”

    That is some helpful interchange going on there! That passes for debate at most of these sites.

    CNSNews.com reported that some of the leading spokespeople for atheism recently gathered at a convention in Northern Virginia. The consensus was that science must ultimately destroy organized religion.

    I hope they mean intellectually.

    In his speech, Richard Dawkins portrayed a black-and-white intellectual battle between atheism and religion. He denounced the "preposterous nonsense of religious customs" and compared religion to racism. He also gave no quarter to moderate or liberal believers, asserting that "so-called moderate Christianity is simply an evasion."
    "If you've been taught to believe it by moderates, what's to stop you from taking the next step and blowing yourself up?" he said.

    Perhaps one overpowering reason is that no where in the teachings of Jesus does it ever say that I should blow myself up. Exactly when or where was the most recent Christian who blew themselves up for their faith? Oddly enough, author Sam Harris was a voice of moderation.

    While Harris said he believed science must ultimately destroy religion, he also discussed spirituality and mysticism and called for a greater understanding of allegedly spiritual phenomena. He also cautioned the audience against lumping all religions together.
    "The refrain that all religions have their extremists is bull-t," Harris said. "All religions do not have their extremists. Some religions have never had their extremists."

    While the audience gave Dawkins a standing ovation, Harris received only polite applause. One questioner later declared herself "very disappointed" in Harris's talk.

    Here is a heartbreaking but predictable sidebar to the story reported at Crosswalk.com.
    Many of the attendees seemed to have developed an aversion to religion from conservative, Protestant Christians. Several of the atheists Cybercast News Service spoke to complained of living under fundamentalist parents who frowned upon any questioning of the Bible or any activity condemned in Scripture.
    "It wasn't easy [telling my parents I was an atheist]," one said. "I still haven't entirely told them. I just say I'm a humanist, which they don't seem to mind."

    That makes me sad but I am not surprised. Much of my book “When Bad Christians Happen to Good People” deals with legalism and the failure of many in the church to communicate grace and love. That type of legalistic religion has done immeasurable damage. Jesus was the harshest critic of “religious” hypocrites.

    Not much has really changed in the past couple of hundred years. The great preacher Charles M. Spurgeon wrote in the 19th century that “if you follow Christ, all the hounds of the world will yelp at your heels. Count on this, if you live for Jesus Christ, the world will not speak well of you.”

    I wish that was not true. I wish I could discuss my faith with civility and grace with everyone. I wish that everyone would view my attempts and desire to communicate my faith as genuine and caring. I am saddened that a group that prides itself on reason is so prone to use ugly stereotypes and ridiculous generalizations. But throwing me under the moron bus won’t change my hope of communicating the message of Christ to you. Sadly, hateful responses have been going on for some time.

    So don't be surprised, friends, when the world hates you. This has been going on a long time. The way we know we've been transferred from death to life is that we love our brothers and sisters. (I John 3, The Message)

    To those who disagree with my beliefs I can only say that I hope you don’t hate me. I do not hate you. I hope you don’t think I am stupid. I certainly don’t think you are stupid (at least until I get to know you and you demonstrate that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt). I do think some of you have a little anger issue but that is another topic. Perhaps if I can implement the words of James I can enter into civil dialogue with some of you.

    Real wisdom, God's wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor. (James 3 – The Message)

    That seems like a good place to start for me and my not so bright friends.

    Dave Burchett is an Emmy Award winning television sports director, author, and Christian speaker. He is the author of When Bad Christians Happen to Good People and Bring'em Back Alive: A Healing Plan for those Wounded by the Church.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 09:26 AM
    RickJ
    Dawkins is in a minute minority of non-Christians and I'm sure he knows it.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 09:29 AM
    NeedKarma
    Dawkins is indeed a minority. Looks like you want to start some kind of holy war though. Is this to be the christian equivalent of a jihad?
  • Oct 15, 2007, 09:45 AM
    MoonlitWaves
    Unfortunantely there are people out there who group all Christians together. We are all shuned, and criticized because of what some do. This is like saying all people with red cars wreck because most of the car wrecks I have seen involved red cars. And Christian's are stupid? They fail to realize that their one-sided knowledge and thoughts makes them ignorant. I guess all of the stupidity of those who aren't Christians is overlooked.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 09:49 AM
    labman
    I always thought science was too firmly rooted to be threatened by religion. Do these people really have so little confidence in science, that they see religion as a threat? Personally, I think the biggest threat to science is those that distort in in pursuit of other agendas, often political or tort cases.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 10:14 AM
    kindj
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Dawkins is indeed a minority. Looks like you want to start some kind of holy war though. Is this to be the christian equivalent of a jihad?


    >... exasperated sigh... <

    I merely thought it was an interesting follow up to the previous discussion.

    Nothing more sinister than that, I assure you.

    However, I do sincerely appreciate your concern. After all, how long until we start blowing ourselves up, right? :rolleyes:
  • Oct 15, 2007, 10:28 AM
    NeedKarma
    Geez, why can't we just live and let others live without trying to frigging convert everyone - that includes Dawkins and anyone that shows up at my doorstep wanting to talk about my religion.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 11:17 AM
    tatertot
    There is NO such thing as an Atheist!
  • Oct 15, 2007, 11:48 AM
    Choux
    Maybe you don't understand, kinji, that belief in religion is based on revelation, and that living in reality is based on knowledge(science).

    By definition, Christians/Believers/religionists accept belief in the supernatural and the unproved stories that go with that.

    By definition, Realitybased/Scientists/athiests require proof about how the world works.

    It is just a fact that most scientists and atheists consider religionists of lesser intellect. I ran across a very interesting statistic last week. In the prestigious group of scientists called the Academy of Scientist etc(CRS Syndrome)a poll of members showed that over NINETY ONE PERCENT OF THE MEMBERS did not believe in the supernatural.

    There is virtually no common ground.


    Christians should just enjoy their faith - belief for the consolation and inspiration it gives them. There is nothing wrong with that!!
  • Oct 15, 2007, 11:56 AM
    kindj
    Choux,

    With all due respect, ma'am, I and other believers of all stripes understand a whole lot more that what we're given credit for.

    "It is just a fact that most scientists and atheists consider religionists of lesser intellect."

    THAT statement smacks of elitism--something I've heard you rail against in the past.

    "There is virtually no common ground."

    It really doesn't have to be that way, you know.

    In his paper titled "The Culture of Academia: Cutting the Baby in Half," author Dr. Everett Piper notes the following:

    "There was a time not long ago when it was assumed that an educated person was one who understood the interconnectedness of all aspects of our existence. One discipline informed the other. Religion and science were interrelated. The humanities were built upon philosophy and visa versa. Economics informed ethics and ethics did likewise for economics. There was harmony between music and math. Faith and learning were intertwined. The university stood for “unity”. Professors, preachers, and politicians all knew that a healthy culture was one built upon an integrated body of knowledge — not a segregated collection of disaffected opinions. Truth stood the test of time and withstood the corruption of power. It was self evident that you can't separate faith from facts or belief from behaviors, for both presuppose the other.

    Today, however, our post-modern universities seem to be adrift in self-refuting and disconnected claims that fly in the face of the above logic. Tolerance is championed by faculty who won't tolerate those they judge to be intolerant. Diversity is claimed as the highest good by students who openly detest those with whom they disagree. Academic freedom is demanded by the same people who employ politically correctness to restrict public prayer. The same academicians that railed against government intrusion during the Scopes Monkey Trial now lobby for a government imposed curriculum that prohibits an open exchange of ideas concerning Darwinism and Intelligent Design."

    I can't help but think he's on to something, myself.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 12:52 PM
    jillianleab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tatertot
    there is NO such thing as an Athiest!

    CRAP! I don't exist! :eek:

    Hello? Anyone else out there? CRAP! :eek: :eek: :eek:
  • Oct 15, 2007, 02:09 PM
    inthebox
    Sticks and stones...


    Does not matter what Dawkins thinks,

    God is sovreign, and He is my Strength and Salvation. David undestood this even when hiding in caves in exile.







    Grace and Peace
  • Oct 15, 2007, 02:33 PM
    Choux
    I have long wondered why uneducated and irrational people NOW insist that they have to be intelligent, and often, brilliant!

    Religion serves to console and inspire individuals, religion is a feelgood-not fact. It is to be enjoyed by believers!

    People who value intellect, knowledge and fact, and what is true study all the sciences.


    There is no common ground between religion and science. Neither camp should pretend that there is!!

    Religion based on revelation. It is fixed.

    Science is based on previous scientific learning, facts, testing, trial and error, revision, more testing, and so on. Science is subject to revision and obtaining NEW information!

    Enjoy your religion!!

    Atheists simply don't believe in your GodAlmighty!! That's all. I have Buddhist leanings, Buddhism is a path without a God, but I would still describe myself as an atheist. My spiritual life exists without anything *Supernatural* which doesn't exist.
  • Oct 15, 2007, 04:08 PM
    savedsinner7
    I enjoy the relationship I have with my God and Saviour. All of the "religion" you can keep. I'll take the revelation.
  • Oct 16, 2007, 04:29 AM
    silentrascal
    That all false religion will be destroyed at God's due time, which seems to be fast approaching. The worldwide conglomerate of false religion (the major part being Christendom) is prophesies to meet its end. The Bible book of Revelation foretells that at God's time, he will put the thought into the hearts of world political rulers and governments to turn on and destroy false religion.

    An already noticeable growing hostility towards religion in the world today is evidence of the nearness of that time.
  • Oct 16, 2007, 04:30 AM
    NeedKarma
    Silent,
    You are truly a fanatic that most people shy from. Good luck!
  • Oct 16, 2007, 04:49 AM
    silentrascal
    NeedKarma... right back at you!
  • Oct 16, 2007, 10:45 AM
    tatertot
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jillianleab
    CRAP! I don't exist! :eek:

    Hello? Anyone else out there? CRAP! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    ALL "ATHIEST" MUST READ

    Atheist by definition is someone who believes God does not exist.

    Okey I WILL PROVE TO YOU THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN Atheist :
    For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing so basically you would have to know everything that is in the universe everything that is on earth and in the sea and on the stars, sun planets etc..

    So its like if I were to make a statement like 'gold does not exist in China" then to prove my statement, I would have to search every square inch of that country in order to confidently say there was no gold. I would also have to search every person to make sure that there were no gold fillings and search every aeroplane in Chinese airspace. Such a mammoth task would be near impossible but would be necessary in order to prove my statement.

    Now lets look at the amount knowledge that a human being can possess. It is obvious that even the smartest person who has ever lived couldn't possess even 1% of all the knowledge in existence. But lets imagine that there existed an Atheist who possessed 1% of all the knowledge in existence. This is of course a HUGE exaggeration, but for the sake of this argument lets say that someone did possess this amount of knowledge. If this person was honest, they would have to admit that the other 99% of knowledge that they didn't possess could have the evidence that proves God's existence. So as you can see from this very simple example, it is impossible to absolutely state that there is no God.

    Now back to the example. If I found gold in the tooth of one Chinese citizen, then I could truthfully say that there is gold in China even if that amount of Gold was very small.

    To conclude: If you claim to be an Atheist, then with respect I say to you that you are actually an Agnostic in the true sense. Meaning you Don't know if there is a God. Although I can respect that you may have chosen not believe in God without proof and in that sense you have chosen to be an Atheist, but your claim to be an atheist is not a scientific one, rather a belief or religion.

    To say that there is no God requires absolute knowledge. Knowledge of not only our 4 known and understood dimensions but all the higher dimensions as well and that would be impossible for a 3 dimensional creature such as yourself. However, If you had absolute knowledge then yes God would exist, because you would be God. On the other hand, to say that there is a God only requires personal experience or an understanding that the design in creation warrants a designer. But ultimately there really can only be 2 types of people, believers and agnostics.
  • Oct 16, 2007, 10:47 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tatertot
    For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing

    Your argument fails right at your first sentence.
  • Oct 16, 2007, 11:08 AM
    tatertot
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Your argument fails right at your first sentence.


    Lol... its really funny but sad how you "Athiest" people are so closed minded and religious. But hay, if Atheism is your religious beliefe then more power to you... lol :D

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