[talaniman]

Even with some of my critics here,

Don't feel special, my advice is the same whether I love you, or hate you.

[TrueFaith]

Same here.. You are not special just because of your likes or dislikes.

The fact of the matter is..

HE is married leave him alone.. Unless he leaves the girl and comes to you.

If you want to test the waters.. there's nothing I can do to stop you..

All I am saying is just have some respect for other peoples lifes
And stop thinking about ifs and buts.. and maybes.

[bigguy225]

Well, I still think there's nothing wrong with testing the waters. You mentioned some things that were interesting, like him asking you for a Valentine's Day card or something. That's doesn't sound like a straight guy talking.

Yeah, if it becomes sexual you have to face the fact that he probably won't leave his wife. You're the only one who stands to lose if that happens. If he's really straight nothing is probably going to happen anyway. I will be honest, even with some of my critics here, that you'd probably be better off looking for a nice available gay guy who's out of the closet and well-adjusted. That's the ideal. Or at least an unmarried guy you might be curious about (like my plastic surgeon, who I'm crazy about:)...I wish someone would give me an idea of how to ask him out or make some approach...he can't be straight, it will break my heart if he is).

Thanks for your advice, like I said, I'll just be his friend and lay back and see what happens, if he's really interested, he'll make the move, he knows I live alone so he can invite himself up anytime... and then who knows, maybe we both may wander into an unmarried straight man who realized that he loves men more.. LOL

[cadillac59]

Thanks for your advice, like I said, I'll just be his friend and lay back and see what happens, if he's really interested, he'll make the move, he knows I live alone so he can invite himself up anytime...and then who knows, maybe we both may wander into an unmarried straight man who realized that he loves men more..LOL

I think there are plenty of gay men who are married to women but can't seem to get out of the relationship and come out of the closet. That's been going on since the beginning of time. And you can often never really know who they are because they all have learned to act so straight. I used to "get the butch on" myself so people would think I was straight but it was all a façade. I've always been gay I just never wanted to admit it. Now that I'm okay with it I'm free to act naturally and be who I really am.

Yeah, it's pretty disheartening to find out that the guy you are crazy about is straight (it's like, "hopes dashed again!"). It's sort of like what a straight woman feels like when she finds out the guy she likes is gay. If I find out my plastic surgeon has a girlfriend I am going to be sooo mad and disappointed! But, then only for a moment and then I'll move on. When you think about all of the millions of people out there, our odds of finding the right guy are pretty good, even if gay people are only 5-10% of the population. I mean we have to work harder because we are outnumbered but there's still a pretty good number of gay people out there (thank God you're not living in the middle of say Kansas in 1905!--that would be almost a hopeless situation).

Good luck with your friend.

[adragon]

I just ended a two-year... "thing" with a married guy. Actually, in the beginning it was his GF. During the period I saw him for. She moved in with him, got married and had a kid!
He pursued me. He made a lot of effort to win me over. More than he should have. I was always honest and upfront. He was not so much.
I basically, never really knew where his head was. A year into things, he started to get irritated at times, mood swings. It could be a little uncomfortable at times.
There was definitely one set of rules for him and another for me.
He is a Scorpio as well. Normally I don't put a whole lot of weight into birth sign thing but he was textbook! Now, you throw in the guilt and the shame. The denial combined with leading a double life. Very quickly the simple becomes anything but! The mutual turns to feeling used. Understanding and open turns to manipulate and mistreated.
When it's gone, it's gone! It's like being on top of the world one minute and hurled into a bed of rock the next.
I did not have a problem if he left, I even told him how to do it. I said as long as it was about him and not me. It won't cause a problem. Of course, it was always about me... everything. The blame was constantly shifted to me. This happened slowly. My boundaries were constantly crossed. I always told him. He always had his reason. I usually gave up, trying to make him understand my point. As it was clear, he would never give me that consideration. Of course, more treats, sweets, etc followed. An extra effort was made... to. Yes, probably appease me! It took a while to see how everything always worked in his favour. I could go on and on!
My suggestion, don't pursue it. If you do stand your ground, realize that this is not a trade, its not about fair, or about you! Realize you will probably never know what it is about. Living a double life will most likely over time have a negative effect on almost anyone. Who does not have a PD or a syndrome or a serial killer!

Chances are being the dirty little secret. You will be the one feeling the wrath of repercussions. The straight guy is only there to get what he needs. He cannot even acknowledge he has these feeling to himself. So forget any hope of understanding, or knowing what the real "deal" is. Chances are the impression your under is not the same he as his.
You will never really be able to comprehend what is going on is his head.
He will not take responsibility, as it requires him to look at the situation in away, he is not going to.
Moral resp- He would not be there if he had or did.
Personal resp - this is not who he is, it's an alter ego. A dark side of himself. Taking personal accountability means he needs to accept this as part of himself, before he can process that!
It's impossible for straight guy full of guilt and shame to be synonymous with or integrity, accountability, tolerance, forthright or equitable.
These characteristics and traits require someone. First to be present, open and able to accept how they play a part in the situation at hand. Until they do, what they seem to be giving. Will remain conditional.

As long as the fantasy fulfils the egocentric need of the "id" the ego will continue to thrive and seem content. However, this is only marginal, temporary and very conditional at that.
There has to be a balance. The moral, socialized norm and expectations of straight mentality. Can quickly create internal conflicts engaging the ego defence mechanism. Resulting in good turning bad, with no conceivable, rational explanation or reason.

So having said that. If catering to a conditional, borderline persona that is in denial, unaware, self serving and unaccountable. Except of course when it comes to getting there needs met. On their terms. If it still seems appealing and your OK with... Working to meet undetermined standards, no communication, willing to give up control, accept responsibility and no equality. Are not important to you. Keeping in mind. In the end, you will have nothing but a lot of confusion, unanswered questions, no appreciation and it will be your entire fault. Then by all means, jump in!

Remember, your at a disadvantage from the get go. Your emotionally available and comfortable with yourself. Yes, in this situation being open is not a good thing!

This is my experience. Every experience is unique and different. However,
There mentality and reality are two of the most important things. When entering into a arrangement or relationship.
If you still feel you don't deserve more! Go in eyes open wide! Feet planted firm. Stick to your guns, accept nothing but respect. Draw the line and stand your ground. Get out, before it gets you! If you can safely do this with no exceptions, no expectations, no emotions or attachment.
You just may be al rite. Good Luck!

[womaningirl]

If you have bedded married streight men means that they are not streight, oviously they were gay because they slept with a man not another woman
And about this guy if he flirts with you then he isn't streight

Think about this rationally too
If he is happily married then don't get to involved in it
Don't do anything with this man
Like you said they are usually in it for sex and you for love then don't get in to it period unless

[adragon]

if u have bedded married streight men means that they are not streight, oviously they were gay because they slept with a man not another woman
and about this guy if he flirts with u then he isnt streight

think about this rationally too
if he is happily married then dont get to involved in it
dont do anything with this man
like u said they are usually in it for sex and u for love then dont get in to it period unless

Off topic... perhaps!
That would be fine, were the world and all the creatures living in it black and white.
Its simply not the case. I think comes down to; if no one ever told you it was wrong.
History, the animal kingdom and isolated tribes have a supported this theory.


I believe the that 90% of the world is bisexual. Society, due to fear and need for order would have us think other wise. However, elements and events out societies control say other wise. History and animals.

Look children, explore freely. Before they are told its wrong. Now if no one ever told them "it was wrong" what would happen. NOTHING! Take another need for example. Primary meat eaters (red and white) or vegetarian, maybe vegan or all of them. Strict or intermittently over the course of a life.

The question is, is really that bad, not everyone wants to procreate? It actually seems unnatural if it really were the case. Look at countries with arranged marriages. No more room! So next time, you see a gay person. Say thank you, for the extra space!

Search: key words > Papa New Guinea Ritual Homosexuality. One of the few unbiased, free from external influence, documented reports of before/ after western influence's.

I don't think anyone can actually make a statement, "if he is happily married then..."
This is not about happiness nor the woman. We are speaking of human being. Humans have a highly developed brain, capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, problem solving and emotion.
Different levels of consciousness, unique characteristic. Some preconditioned, some learned, some forced. Except for nature. Religion, society, peers and family. Are just some of the external influences that can determine. How an individual will see himself, threw the eyes of others.

Some straight men, only identified with straight, until a certain point. Had you asked them prior. They would have honestly answered, yes when questioned if straight.

Since the ego develops at different times and to degrees. Who is qualified to determine this. Men in prison will engage in M2M situations. Once they are release, they may never act or even entertain the idea of M2M.

In Middle Eastern countries, men are segregated from women. Its not uncommon for men to find themselves in the same situation. This may last until the man is married or continue. Each case is unique... I could go on.

However, this is way off topic. I just wish people would evolve past this point. Be gay, be straight, be a turnip... just be respectful of others worry about yourself and you will be fine...

[bigguy225]

I just ended a two-year..."thing" with a married guy. Actually, in the beginning it was his GF. During the period I saw him for. She moved in with him, got married and had a kid!
He pursued me. He made a lot of effort to win me over. More than he should have. I was always honest and upfront. He was not so much.
I basically, never really knew where his head was. A year into things, he started to get irritated at times, mood swings. It could be a little uncomfortable at times.
There was definitely one set of rules for him and another for me.
He is a Scorpio as well. Normally I don't put a whole lot of weight into birth sign thing but he was textbook! Now, you throw in the guilt and the shame. The denial combined with leading a double life. Very quickly the simple becomes anything but! The mutual turns to feeling used. Understanding and open turns to manipulate and mistreated.
When it’s gone, it’s gone! It’s like being on top of the world one minute and hurled into a bed of rock the next.
I did not have a problem if he left, I even told him how to do it. I said as long as it was about him and not me. It won’t cause a problem. Of course, it was always about me...everything. The blame was constantly shifted to me. This happened slowly. My boundaries were constantly crossed. I always told him. He always had his reason. I usually gave up, trying to make him understand my point. As it was clear, he would never give me that consideration. Of course, more treats, sweets, etc followed. An extra effort was made...to. Yes, probably appease me! It took a while to see how everything always worked in his favour. I could go on and on!
My suggestion, don't pursue it. If you do stand your ground, realize that this is not a trade, its not about fair, or about you! Realize you will probably never know what it is about. Living a double life will most likely over time have a negative effect on almost anyone. Who does not have a PD or a syndrome or a serial killer!

Chances are being the dirty little secret. You will be the one feeling the wrath of repercussions. The straight guy is only there to get what he needs. He cannot even acknowledge he has these feeling to him self. So forget any hope of understanding, or knowing what the real "deal" is. Chances are the impression your under is not the same he as his.
You will never really be able to comprehend what is going on is his head.
He will not take responsibility, as it requires him to look at the situation in away, he is not going to.
Moral resp- He would not be there if he had or did.
Personal resp - this is not who he is, it’s an alter ego. A dark side of himself. Taking personal accountability means he needs to accept this as part of him self, before he can process that!
It’s impossible for straight guy full of guilt and shame to be synonymous with or integrity, accountability, tolerance, forthright or equitable.
These characteristics and traits require someone. First to be present, open and able to accept how they play a part in the situation at hand. Until they do, what they seem to be giving. Will remain conditional.

As long as the fantasy fulfils the egocentric need of the "id" the ego will continue to thrive and seem content. However, this is only marginal, temporary and very conditional at that.
There has to be a balance. The moral, socialized norm and expectations of straight mentality. Can quickly create internal conflicts engaging the ego defence mechanism. Resulting in good turning bad, with no conceivable, rational explanation or reason.

So having said that. If catering to a conditional, borderline persona that is in denial, unaware, self serving and unaccountable. Except of course when it comes to getting there needs met. On their terms. If it still seems appealing and your OK with... Working to meet undetermined standards, no communication, willing to give up control, accept responsibility and no equality. Are not important to you. Keeping in mind. In the end, you will have nothing but a lot of confusion, unanswered questions, no appreciation and it will be your entire fault. Then by all means, jump in!

Remember, your at a disadvantage from the get go. Your emotionally available and comfortable with your self. Yes, in this situation being open is not a good thing!

This is my experience. Every experience is unique and different. However,
there mentality and reality are two of the most important things. When entering into a arrangement or relationship.
If you still feel you don't deserve more! Go in eyes open wide! Feet planted firm. Stick to your guns, accept nothing but respect. Draw the line and stand your ground. Get out, before it gets you! If you can safely do this with no exceptions, no expectations, no emotions or attachment.
You just may be al rite. Good Luck!

Thank you very much, I agree with every thing you wrote about and even had the same experience when I was in my twenties, however, I have no plans on doing anything but be his friend, if he pursue me then it will be a sexual relationship, providing that I feel comfortable with it at the time... I just don't have the strength at my age to deal with these so-called "straight" men who are religious and filled with shame and guilt.

[roxypox]

Womaningril; if a married straight man beds another man he might not be purly gay, but sipmply bi sexual.

Bigguy: seems like a good idea to just be friends, if he is gay or bi and his marrige is just a way to hide his real sexual preferences then you might gain something by it, who knows

But if you push and he is not bi or gay, then you lose a friend: as you yourself statuated above.

So go and enjoy the friendship... but the whole crush thing in the back of your mind. Be happy with the fact that you have a good friends and a neat professional contact. It really is worth its weight in gold. :) so good luck!

[bigguy225]

womaningril; if a married straight man beds another man he might not be purly gay, but sipmply bi sexual.

bigguy: seems like a good idea to just be friends, if he is gay or bi and his marrige is just a way to hide his real sexual preferences then you might gain something by it, who knows

but if you push and he is not bi or gay, then you lose a friend: as you yourself statuated above.

So go and enjoy the friendship.... but the whole crush thing in the back of your mind. Be happy with the fact that you have a good friends and a neat professional contact. It really is worth its weight in gold. :) so good luck!

Thanks

[Macuser1972]

Well, I still think there's nothing wrong with testing the waters. You mentioned some things that were interesting, like him asking you for a Valentine's Day card or something. That's doesn't sound like a straight guy talking.

Yeah, if it becomes sexual you have to face the fact that he probably won't leave his wife. You're the only one who stands to lose if that happens. If he's really straight nothing is probably going to happen anyway. I will be honest, even with some of my critics here, that you'd probably be better off looking for a nice available gay guy who's out of the closet and well-adjusted. That's the ideal. Or at least an unmarried guy you might be curious about (l like my plastic surgeon, who I'm crazy about:)...I wish someone would give me an idea of how to ask him out or make some approach... he can't be straight, it will break my heart if he is).

ADVICE: Regrading your plastic surgeon... If you are to engage in any relationship with him, remember that you should end the physician-patient relationship first. In essence, don't date this guy if you remain his patient. First, it is unethical, mostly for him and he could lose his ability to practice medicine. Some would say that it is his problem. But I always say, be the better person if in doubt!:)