[Wondergirl]

Where specifically do you find "whole creation" limited to earth in scripture?

Then you're saying that Jesus died on this world for any life on other worlds--or even saying there is no viable life on any other planets.

[JoeT777]

Me too Joe, me too! :cool:

Happy Easter everybody! I've got to shut myself down so I can be bright and spiffy for Mass in the morning.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

Happy Easter everybody! I've got to shut myself down so I can be bright and spiffy for Mass in the morning.

JoeT

Happy Easter, Joe!

[Alty]

Happy Easter everybody! I've got to shut myself down so I can be bright and spiffy for Mass in the morning.

JoeT

Happy Easter to you too Joe and everyone else.

I've got to be up bright and early so the kids can search for their baskets. Sorry, no mass for me, but the day is special. :)

[Tj3]

Then you're saying that Jesus died on this world for any life on other worlds--or even saying there is no viable life on any other planets.

So far all you have given is speculation of the following:

1) That there is life elsewhere (intelligent life)
2) That sin did not affect all of creation (even though scripture says that it did)
3) That if there is intelligent life on another world, that the coming of the God who created the whole universe to die on the cross had no impact other than on this grain of dust in this galaxy, making the effect of God's word very limited.

And what have you validated from scripture? So far none of it.

Give a whole lot of assumption and speculation piled up several layers with absolutely no solid validation, vs God's word, I believe God.

[Wondergirl]

Happy Easter to you too Joe and everyone else.

I've got to be up bright and early so the kids can search for their baskets. Sorry, no mass for me, but the day is special. :)

Happy Easter, Alty!

[JoeT777]

Happy Easter to you too Joe and everyone else.

I've got to be up bright and early so the kids can search for their baskets. Sorry, no mass for me, but the day is special. :)

Ok, maybe next Easter.

[Alty]

Ok, maybe next Easter.

Or the Easter after that. Stranger things have happened, you never know. ;)

[JoeT777]

Or the Easter after that. Stranger things have happened, you never know. ;)

We'll pray for 'stranger things'.

[Peaceful1]

Muslims have something that offers the clearest proof of all - The Holy Quran. There is no other book like it anywhere on earth. It is absolutely perfect in the Arabic language. It has no mistakes in grammar, meanings or context. The scientific evidences are well known around the entire world, even amongst non-Muslim scholars. Predictions in the Quran have come true; and its teachings are clearly for all people, all places and all times.

Surprisingly enough, the Quran itself provides us with the test of authenticity and offers challenges against itself to prove its veracity. Allah tells us in the Quran:

Haven't the unbelievers considered if this was from other than Allah, they would find within it many contradictions?
[Noble Quran 4:82]

Another amazing challenge from Allah's Book:

If you are in doubt about it, bring a chapter like it.
[Noble Quran 2:23]

And Allah challenges us with:

Bring ten chapters like it.[Noble Quran 11:13]

And finally:

Bring one chapter like it.[Noble Quran 10:38]

No one has been able to produce a book like it, nor ten chapters like it, nor even one chapter like it. It was memorized by thousands of people during the lifetime of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and then this memorization was passed down from teacher to student for generation after generation, from mouth to ear and from one nation to another. Today every single Muslim has memorized some part of the Quran in the original Arabic language that it was revealed in over 1,400 years ago, even though most of them are not Arabs. There are over nine million (9,000,000) Muslims living on the earth today who have totally memorized the entire Quran, word for word, and can recite the entire Quran, in Arabic just as Muhammad (peace be upon him) did 14 centuries ago.

MORE?
visit

Allah's Quran - Quran - A Guidance Without Doubt

God Allah - Does It Mean God?

[Tj3]

Since the topic here is not the Koran, but you wish to discuss it, let's look at Aal-e-Imran 3:3

He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was said before ti, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel aforetime, as guidance to the people, and He sent down Salvation.

Now here the Koran endorses and points you to the Gospel and to the Salvation which was sent. What is that Gospel, do you know?

[galveston]

Now we will be arguing the superiority of different books. OK.

Mohommad wrote his book. One author. All eggs in one basket, so to speak. In spite of that there are at least 3 different sects of Islam, some of whom hate the others.

The Bible claims to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, is penned by many authors, yet without contradictiions. (I have challenged Atheists to prove any, but they have been loathe to do so.)

There are literally hundreds of prophecies in the Bible that have already been fulfilled, thus proving its divine authorship.

The point of the OP was whether the Bible alone is sufficient or whether Tradition is needed.

You cannot build a house without some standard of measurement, how much less a church? In the New Testament, the four Evangelists, plus Paul, Peter, James and Jude recorded everything necessary for our perfection, and did it when the events were very recent. What came later is suspect because the witnesses could not be questioned.

I have a question for the Muslims.

Mohammed said that Jesus is a prophet of God.
Mohammed said that Allah has no Son.
Jesus said that He is the Son of God.
So who is wrong? Jesus or Mohammed?

If Jesus lied, then He can hardly be called a prophet of God.

What do you say?

[Peaceful1]

So what do you understand from these verses

He it is Who has sent down this Book to you (O Messenger) in Absolute Truth, confirming the authentic in what He has revealed before. He is the One Who revealed the Torah and the Gospel. (Quran 3:3)

He has bestowed Guidance upon mankind before, and now He has sent the Final Criterion between right and wrong. Those who reject the revelations of God, theirs will be a strict retribution. God Almighty’s Law of Cause and Effect carries all things and actions to their logical outcome. (Quran 3:4)

Quran is speaking about. The Torah & the Gospel, which was given to Moses & Jesus peace be upon them, Not the today's corrupted bible.

Read the next verse. (Now He has sent the Final Criterion betweent right & wrong).
Now you have to follow the Final Book, i.e. The Holy Quran.

All the messengers that came before Prophet Muhammed (Peace be upon him) -they were only sent for their people, and their message was only meant for a particular time. The messengers that came were sent for their own people, and their message was meant for a particular time.

In fact, Qur’an says in Surah Fatir, Ch. 35, Verse 24 ‘There is not a nation or a tribe…there has never been a nation or a people, to whom a Warner has not been sent’. The Qur’an says in Surah Raad, Ch.13, Verse 7... ‘And to every nation and to every people have we sent a guide’. That means, there were messengers and guides, send to all the nations of the world.

By name, only 25 Prophets of Almighty God are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an.
For example Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, David, Solomon, Jesus, Muhammed (Peace be upon him). But our beloved Prophet Muhammed (Peace be upon him), is mentioned in the Hadith, has said that… ' There were more than 1,24,000 Messengers sent on the face of the earth.'

The Holy Qur’an says in Surah Ahzab, Ch. 33, Verse 40 ‘Muhammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of Allah (SWT). He is the messenger of Almighty God, and the seal of the Prophets - and Allah is all knowing and full of knowledge’.

In Surah Ambiya, Ch. 21,Verse 107 ‘That We have sent thee… that is, Prophet Muhammed, as a mercy to all the creatures’ -As a mercy to all the world, as a mercy to the whole of humanity. The Holy Qur’an says in Surah Saba, Ch. 34, Verse 28... ‘That We have sent thee…that is, Prophet Muhammed (Peace be upon him), as a universal Messenger giving them glad tidings, and warning them against sin.

[Tj3]

s
Quran is speaking abt. the Torah & the Gospel, which was given to Moses & Jesus peace be upon them, Not the today's corrupted bible.

The gospel was not given TO Jesus. The gospels were penned after Jesus's death and resurrection. That is one error in the Koran. Jesus and the gospel is the Good news (Gospel).

As for your claims of "corruption", we have manuscripts which go back well before the Koran was written, so we know what Mohammed would have known as the Bible at that time (which by the way, is identical to what we have today), so we can prove with absolute certainty that there have been no changes to the content.

BTW, when 3:3 says that salvation was sent, I trust that you know that Yeshua (in Greek - Jesus) means "Salvation".

[galveston]

The "criterion" you speak of is none other than Jesus the Christ.

Jesus was more than just a prophet, and He was sent not only to the Jews.

Matt 4:14-16
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
(KJV)

And these words, prophecy concerning Messiah (Jesus)
Ps 2:8
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
(KJV)

[JoeT777]

Tom:

How do you know that it isn't the Koran that is the 'Standard of Truth'?

JoeT

[Tj3]

Tom:

How do you know that it isn’t the Koran that is the ‘Standard of Truth’?

JoeT

For several reasons, not the least of which that it contradicts God's word, and it does not have the same validation as the Bible has with respect to prophetic accuracy and other relevant criteria.

[JoeT777]

For several reasons, not the least of which that it contradicts God's word, and it does not have the same validation as the Bible has with respect to prophetic accuracy and other relevant criteria.

And who validates Scripture?

[Tj3]

And who validates Scripture?

God.

[Peaceful1]

The "criterion" you speak of is none other than Jesus the Christ.

Jesus was more than just a prophet, and He was sent not only to the Jews.

Matt 4:14-16
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
(KJV)

And these words, prophecy concerning Messiah (Jesus)
Ps 2:8
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
(KJV)

Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, 1 and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go ye rather unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.

Matthew 10:5-6

The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." [The Bible, Acts 2:22]