[sparkynic]

The Dems left because they were out numbered.

[sparkynic]

I completely agree. Without UNIONS there would be no middle class. Wake up people!

[sparkynic]

What do you do for a living?

[tomder55]

What's your point in asking this irrelevant question ?

[tomder55]

Deleted duplicate post

[paraclete]

I'll bite Tom what is your point?

[tomder55]

This story has not gone away. As Ex predicted ,it's a war ,and the Senate passing the laws was just a battle in the war.

The war has shifted to the recall effort.

The recall process in Wi. Is pretty simple... get enough petitition signatures and force a new election .There are 16 such petition drives ongoing . 8 for each side. The Republicans are targeting (yeah I said it )8 Dems for their 'fleebagging' . The Dems have 8 Republicans in their sights (yeah I said it) for their vote.

Except it looks like the national Republicans have gone ADD while the Democrats still see Wisconsin as the front line.

The Democratic Governors Association, and MoveOn.org have begun a multimillion-dollar TV campaign to support the recall effort. The national Republicans only have the Republican State Leadership Committee (RSLC) paying attention.

What's at stake ? Recall elections can beging in the Spring. If the Dems manage to get a majority in the Senate ,it could have a big impact on redistricting ,slated to begin in the summer.

But even more it will ripple across the country where there are many states facing the terrible fiscal options that runaway state workers contracts have caused.

[talaniman]

Sounds good Tom, but far from truth. We were all humming along enjoying the fruits of our labor, happy as larks until Wall Street banks screwed up the money, all over the freaking world, and now we struggle to regroup. Putting the blame on a sector of the population is just missing the facts, and the whole point.

We got robbed, and to say the middle class did it is crazy, to say unions are to blame is crazy. I mean just look at who got bailed out, and who didn't.

Just look at who has to balance the books, and who doesn't. That's right, poor people, and struggling public sector workers have been made the sacrificial cow, and the ones who are the "job creators" and movers and shakers are rewarded even more.

Not only when this robbery was perpetrated, but even now, as tax breaks on the fed level, and tax breaks on the state level have made shared sacrifice a joke, right in front of our faces.

This ain't about public workers, never was, its always been about corporate power, and control, starting with the economy, after jobs are shipped overseas, and the money allowed to buy lawmakers, so they can have new laws that restrict the flow of money through the system, and the grab of total control over the population. That's what this is about, and that's what the republicans are about.

But you middle class and working stiff republicans will be on the wrong end of the money as we Dem's and independents will be so see you in the bread line, and we can exchange stories about how well that worked out for us.

Elections coming up, scheduled, and non scheduled, so we might get some cake out of this.

The funny thing to me is if republicans and democrats spent as much time getting the bad guys who stole the money that started this in the first place, we wouldn't have to fight each other for the crumbs.

[tomder55]

This public sector unfunded mandates problem was brewing well before 2008 .

[talaniman]

Yes it was, and who was creating the economic bubbles that burst on us all? Wisconsin is but a focal point for the media, its global, as the middle east and Europe are in the same boat.

[tomder55]

This is what you soak the rich rhetoric brings
Reports: Caterpillar Hints At Leaving Illinois Over High Taxes

The fact that prosperity masked a system that was inevidably going to collapse doesn't change the fact that state workers picking private workers pockets is not a sound model for success.

[excon]

This story has not gone away. As Ex predicted ,it's a war ,and the Sentate passing the laws was just a battle in the war.

Hello again, tom:

Not only has it not gone away, what happened in Wisconsin is the spark that has re-ignited a long dead debate about what government actually is supposed to do... Steve articulated the difference's perfectly,

Since when was it someone else's job in a free country to distribute wealth? If the left would stop their social engineering games and get out of they way, this country would thrive again.

Of course, since the beginning, the government's JOB was to redistribute the wealth. In fact, that's its ONLY job. It collects taxes from some to pay for services for others. Some of those services may be an Army to protect everybody, a road for everybody to drive on, a police force to protect peoples lives, and, of course, the ability to make RULES, like everybody should drive on the right side of the road, and workers shouldn't be forced to labor in a locked room, in a building that's a fire trap.

Both you and steve say that SOME of that "redistribution" of wealth is just fine, although you'll NEVER call it "redistribution". In fact, I have no idea what you call it... But, the fact that you call it something OTHER than what it is, IS the problem.

You've been getting away with it since Ronny Raygun. I guess that caused you start believing your own schtick... That's why you're SOOO surprised at the response you've gotten in Wisconsin. What you've done is awakened a sleeping giant, and it's going to come back to bite you. This op-ed in the NY Times says everything that needs to be said.

excon

[tomder55]

Let's see who gets the best of the recalls. Down in liberal bastion Miami Fla ,Mayor Carlos Alvarez was ousted with a recall, by voters angry over a property tax rate increase and salary raises for county employees .

Some of those services may be an Army to protect everybody, a road for everybody to drive on, a police force to prevent crime, and the ability to make RULES like everybody should drive on the right side of the road, and workers shouldn't be forced to labor in a locked in a room in a building that's a fire trap.

Both you and steve say that SOME of that "redistribution" of wealth is just fine, although you'll NEVER call it "redistribution".

That's right I will never call those legitimate actions of government redistribution because it isn't. You said it yourself.. those are shared services .

Tell me where elected officials ,collecting union dues for the unions, and then creating law that allows unions to pick the pockets of non-union members, forcing them to pay for benefits that the non-union workers do not enjoy in the work place fall under legitimate roles of government ?

[excon]

That's right I will never call those legitimate actions of government redistribution because it aint.

Tell me where elected officials ,collecting union dues for the unions, and then creating law that allows unions to pick the pockets of non-union members, forcing them to pay for benefits that the non-union workers do not enjoy in the work place fall under legitimate roles of government ?

Hello again, tom:

I'll be happy to, after you tell me WHY the most profitable industry in the history of the world, the oil industry, should be the recipient of $$$ BILLIONS of MY REDISTRIBUTED wealth.

As long as you call THAT a legitimate action of government, but protecting workers isn't, you're going to fail. Here's what you miss. There's a consensus in the country that spending needs to be curtailed... Most everybody is willing to SHARE in the sacrifice necessary to get the country back on track... ;)

Of course, that's NO SO is it? You don't want EVERYBODY to sacrifice, you want the POOR and the middle class to do it... That, my friend, ain't going to happen.

excon

[tomder55]

This op-ed in the NY Times says everything that needs to be said

.

Yeah Wisconsin was the first to introduce public employee bargaining, 52 years ago, and it is the first to admit that it cannot be sustained.

The author is funny. He says that Republicans are trying to "reverse civic traditions that for more than a century have been among the most celebrated achievements" . Then says that the state instituted them in 1959 . You do the math .

Besides ;history has shown that Joe McCarthy was right.

[tomder55]

I'll be happy to, after you tell me WHY the most profitable industry in the history of the world, the oil industry, should be the recipient of $$$ BILLIONS of MY REDISTRIBUTED wealth.

As long as you call THAT a legitimate action of government,.

I don't . So the misnomer 'crony' "capitalism" is just another name for state socialism.

[excon]

I don't . So the misnomer 'crony' "capitalism" is just another name for state socialism.

Hello again, tom:

Cool. When I hear you clamoring for THAT subsidy to be repealed, I'll listen to your gripes about the unions.

excon

[tomder55]

You haven't seem me write it ?

Well let me refresh your memory:

that is why I favor the use of bankruptsy instead of bailouts . That is why I favor the limitted use of regulations which has an unintended consequence of industry consolidation . That is why I oppose this use of corporate /government cooperatives that are being set up by the current group of leaders which more resembles merchantilism than capitalism.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ce-534598.html

On the same posting #29

...Corporations likewise should not be granted through the legal structure special favors. The individual farmer should play on the same level field as ADM .

I'm sure with more time I could find other such examples .

OK one more because you posted the OP about 'Progressive ' Insurance

Couldn't figure out what this was about. What a surprise that business people who prosper in a crony business /government environment wouid be 'progressive' (aka national/state socialists)!!

Jeff Immelt at GE is one also...

[talaniman]

I am against anyone who stops the free circulation of every dollar, hoarders are not welcome. Ego tripping should be against the law.

The few should never tell the many what's good for 'em. That's modern day slavery!!

[excon]

you haven't seem me write it ?

Hello again, tom:

I've seen you write it. I haven't seen you clamor for it. This thread is clamoring.

excon