[tomder55]

Governor Walker of Wisconsin has no choice. He is mandated to have a balanced budget ;currently facing a $137 million budget deficit. He faces the choice of asking the public service employees ,including teachers ,to modestly contribute to their pension and health care entitlements(roughly 5% towards retirement pensions and 12% towards health care coverage);the state will still guarantee 95% of the pension, and 88% of the health care costs for state employees... or he can lay off 5,500 state workers to balance the budget .
This proposal would put Wisconsin in line with national averages.for public pension payments,and it is less than half the national average of what public service employees nationwide contribute to health care... which in itself is a much better deal than most private sector employees enjoy ,even as their tax dollar is being used to fund the public service benefits.

He has asked them for these concessions ,and has proposed that the law be changed so the state employee unions pensions and health care benefits would not be subject to collective bargaining (exempting police, fire, and state troopers)... their salaries would still be negotiable .

Here in NY Mayor Bloomy could not get the unions to agree. He will instead lay off city workers ,or let their jobs attrit by the thousands.

The left is reacting like this is a line in the sand that cannot be crossed. Thousands of activists have been bussed into Madison Wi. Courtesy of the President's goon campaign organization . Teacher's calling in sick have closed down school districts in 2 cities(cities where the performace record of the education system is nothing to brag about) . Doctors are writing fraudulent sick notes for teachers. The Democrats in the state legislature have cowardly bugged out of the state rather than vote on the Governors proposals.
The President ,butting in where he doesn't belong, 'stupidly' called the plan an "assault" on unions. It is not .It is merely asking the unions to fall in line with the rest of the labor force of the country. The President would be advised to get the national budget in line and stop worrying about the Wisconsin budget.
The national media has compared this to the Cairo pro-democracy protests ,when in fact ,the move by the Democrats are clearly un-democratic.
Governor Walker was elected in traditially liberal Wisconsin specifically because he said this is what he'd do.
That is why the factory worker in Madison who is doing overtime to get by voted for Walker. He has a legitimate point in objecting to have to pay taxes to support public workers benefits when he struggles to make ends meet himself .
This same scenario is going to be played out across the country as more states come to grip with their budget issues. This is a fact .The states have no choice.

[excon]

He has asked them for these concessions ,and has proposed that the law be changed so the state employee unions pensions and health care benefits would not be subject to collective bargaining (exempting police, fire, and state troopers)...their salaries would still be negotiable .

The President ,butting in where he doesn't belong, 'stupidly' called the plan an "assault" on unions. It is not .It is merely asking the unions to fall in line with the rest of the labor force of the country.

Hello tom:

Removing their rights to bargain collectively IS nothing other than union busting. Tell me exactly how much is saved by removing this right. Obama speaks the truth.

By the way - it's not PROPOSED. It's the LAW he wants to RAM down their throats.

excon

[tomder55]

How much is saved ? Thousands of jobs. That's what.
He has the votes to get the law passed . That is why the Dems in the legislature bugged out. They are preventing the will of the people with a cowardly trick.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

He DOES have the votes to RAM IT THROUGH... So, RAMMING it down our throats a GOOD thing now?? I understand.

excon

PS> Why is this the will of the people, when health care reform wasn't?? I don't get you guys.

[tomder55]

Clearly the Dems didn't have the votes to get the health care plan they envisioned passed. That is why they needed to get it passed through the back door reconciliation procedure they used. That is why they had to bribe and threaten many of their
Lawmakers to get it passed.
This is not similar to the health care vote at all.

This is trying to save the state budget. Obamacare is a budget buster.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I STILL don't understand you guys. When Democrats pass a bill, it's being RAMMED down your throats... But when Republicans do it, it's the will of the people...

excon

[cdad]

Why doesn't he announce (the Govenor) that he isn't going to change anything. Allow for the school year to finish and then lay off all the teachers. Let them have the whole summer figuring out how to restructure their lives around their own pesonal budgets when they don't have any income.

It might make them wake up a little and there is nothing illegal about it. Also the whole process of tenure can go out the window as a new hiring process can begin.

[excon]

How much is saved ? Thousands of jobs.

Hello again, tom:

Are these the same jobs the super wealthy are going to create because we gave them their needed tax cut?? Or are these other jobs?? We're going to be in job heaven pretty soon aren't we?? That was what you promised, isn't it?? Ok. We GAVE the richest amongst us a HUGE tax break.. Didn't we do that because they can't create jobs with "uncertainty" in the air.. So, we removed the "uncertainty", and the jobs are coming, aren't they?? AREN'T THEY??

Or, is this "job" crap, like the last "job" crap?

excon

[excon]

Hello again,

Let's call a spade a spade... The right wing doesn't like unions.. That's because unions, in the main, support Democrats. If the unions can be busted, it will be a boon for the Republican party.

So, I say this is about politics - and not about anything else... Now, if that provision about collective bargaining weren't in there, I'd be singing a different tune. But, it is, so I am.

excon

[tomder55]

They aren't busting the unions . But the public unions are busting the state's budgets.

My own take is that public service workers should not be unionized at all . Not because of which political party the union bosses support . I imagine ;given the choice of layoffs or modest givebacks the rank and file in the Wisconsin public sector would do the same thing that their counterparts in the private-sector did .
UAW Agrees to Givebacks at Ford | Labor Notes

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

The unions have agreed to the FINANCIAL cuts the governor proposed. So, it's not about money. It's POLITICS, pure and simple.

By the way, if unions are busting the states, WHY did he exempt the cops and firemen? Would it be because they support Republicans?? Hmmmm.

excon

[tomder55]

I don't know why . If it were me ;and the cops staged a job action I'd fire them just like Governor Calvin Coolidge did during the 1919 Boston police strike .
He said this in justification to his action.

This phrase caught the attention of the nation. It was beginning to be clear that if voluntary associations were to be permitted to substitute their will for the authority of public officials the end of our government was at hand.

Parents should go on strike against the teachers in Wisconsin. Milwaulkee schools have a 46% graduation rate... only 34% of African Americans students graduate. How dare they pull a job action with those numbers ! In the private sector they would not retain their jobs regardless of the terms.

Tell you what... open the state to 'right to work' laws and let the employees decide if they even want to be unionized. Maybe they are tired of having mandatory due taken out of their checks. Maybe those dues could pay for their benefit package.

[cdad]

Hello again, tom:

The unions have agreed to the FINANCIAL cuts the governor proposed. So, it's not about money. It's POLITICS, pure and simple.

By the way, if unions are busting the states, WHY did he exempt the cops and firemen? Would it be because they support Republicans??? Hmmmm.

excon

Where is it written that they agreed to anything so far? The newest story I can find is from yesterday and nothing like that is mentioned ?

Union protests spread across the US — RT

[excon]

Where is it written that they agreed to anything so far? The newest story I can find is from yesterday and nothing like that is mention

Hello again, dad:

Donna Brazile reported it this morning on This Week.

excon

[tomder55]

I think that public service employees should have the same rights as Federal workers. They should have no right to collective bargain with our tax dollars. Wages and other compensation should be determined by the elected body that has the responsibility to spend tax revenue... the Legislature.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I'm not a fan of unions. They act just like big corporations do - in THEIR own self interest - not MINE when I was a member. Nor, was I fan when federal workers won their collective bargaining rights... But, they did, and they made the agreements they did - NOT in a vacuum, as you would have us understand, but the agreement was with their employers - just like ANY bargaining agreement is with your employer...

That said, what you think SHOULD be done, or what I think SHOULD be done isn't the issue.. The issue here is whether the public service unions will survive. Their Waterloo is in Wisconsin. You're right. It's not about negotiation. The governor HAS the votes. He only needs the Democrats to fill a quorum so he can RAM it through. He doesn't care about their position.

So, it's now a matter of who blinks first...

excon

[tomder55]

And this scenario is going to play out across the country . Today's headline in my local NY paper... 'Paying for NY pensions crippling local budgets'. It is an epidemic at State and local levels throughout the country.

Mitch Daniels in Indiana ;John Kasich in Ohio have similar proposals on the table. Heck ;even Jerry Brown and Andrew Cuomo are willing to entertain pension reforms for State workers. Across the board ,Governors around the country sound like Chris Christe .

[cdad]

I wonder where they were getting their information from for that ABC Roundtable ?

At the teachers union website there is no mention whatsoever of anything they tried to push on that show. No mention on voluntary cuts of any kind.

AFT - A Union of Professionals - Weingarten Urges Support for Wisconsin Workers

[tomder55]

Dad ,at least for public posture the union leaders are saying they willing to accept the financial concessions called for in Walker's plan, but will not accept the loss of collective bargaining rights.
Opposing sides meet as Capitol protests enter sixth day

They are taking this position because they know the bill will pass as is . The Governor doesn't need to negotiate. As soon as he can get the Legislature to meet the bill will become law.

Excon is right... this is Waterloo ,Gettysburg's Picketts charge all in one. This action will reverberate across the country as taxpayers rebel against paying their employees better wages and benefits than they are paid .
Here is the SEIU newsletter emailed today.

SEIU brothers and sisters,


As I write, 30,000 people are gathered outside of the Capitol building in Madison, Wisconsin speaking out against Republican Governor Scott Walker's attempt to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees.


Almost 14,000 of our SEIU brothers and sisters stand to lose their rights if Governor Walker gets his way: 9,000 nurses and nursing home staff, along with about 5,000 home care workers.


They've been out there among the demonstrators all week.


We've set up a page on our website that allows you to send a message of support to our SEIU family and everyone else fighting for their rights outside the Capitol.


Share your well-wishes for the working families in Wisconsin and we'll make sure they receive them this weekend.


SEIU | Send a message of support to SEIU members in Wisconsin


While the collective bargaining rights of our members are at stake, it's important to note that the conversation taking place is about more than that alone. When Scott Walker manufactured this crisis by giving tax cuts to corporations and his special interest friends last month, it escalated a state legislative debate into a struggle for economic justice with large corporations not paying their fair share to get Americans back to work.


When you see the news of our members in Wisconsin on the television and online, those are the things they're fighting for.


Send a message to your SEIU brothers and sisters who have been outside the Capitol all week and we'll make sure they receive it.


SEIU | Send a message of support to SEIU members in Wisconsin


Scott Walker claims this is about saving money, but President Obama said it best: this is an "assault on unions."


But it's not just union members at risk; it's the services these members provide-whether that be as teachers, public safety personnel or home health care workers.


I'll be in touch soon with updates from Wisconsin and other states where working families are under attack from a new crop of Republican governors.


In solidarity,


Mary Kay Henry

President, SEIU


PS - Republicans are trying to take away workers' rights in at least ten states. But if we stop them in Wisconsin, we'll make a strong statement that America will not tolerate any more Republican attacks on the middle class. Stand with workers in Wisconsin now:


SEIU | Send a message of support to SEIU members in Wisconsin

If the Dems stay out much longer the people of Wisconsin should begin recall petitions.

[cdad]

What I don't understand is why the union doesn't agree to it and be done with it. To still have standing on the wage package and then be responsible to the membership shouldn't be out of line with the unions best interest. Instead they still want a free ride and its no longer going to work in this current economy. What rights are they actually giving up ? The right to free healthcare? (cough).