[jlisenbe]

If you have a relationship with God then you'd have no desire to try and explain that relationship.

Why not? I would think that telling people about that relationship would be one of the great goals of our lives.

That's why God's love was never preached among the early church.

That is an absurdly ridiculous statement. Love is proclaimed all over the NT. Spend a little time in a Strong's Concordance. Gal. 2:20 is a wonderful place to start.

As soon as God breathed into man, The Word (Jesus) was brought to life.

There is nothing at all in the Bible to support such an idea. Nothing...at...all.

If I believe in Jesus, then I must believe his word to be true. And know that when all of creation is rolled up like a scroll, his word is the only thing we can stand on. I believe because I believe...no rime or reason.

Can you not see that your first sentence is the "rime or reason" for your belief???

[waltero]

Much the same reasoning, why God loves you? It goes beyond reasoning.
God's breath gives birth to life...That life is the breath of his word. We have breath, we have word. Do we use God's breath to speak God's word, or do we use the breath of life to speak our own word? The word of God is in the breath of life. His word (breath) brings life.

If you tell people about your personal relationship, then it is no longer personal. When you talk of your relationship with God, that is all you. it belongs to you, it comes from you. Your "personal relationship" with God has nothing to do with anybody else. It's like giving testimony. It doesn't matter if people understand what you are talking about. It's similar to when Moses scolded Aaron, for not making a sacrifice. To you, John 3:16 might mean something totally different than what it means to me. It's not a matter of who's right or who's wrong. When you are willing to add (unconditional love) to God's word, only then does it become a matter of wanting to be right...in manipulating the interpretation of his word. Just as Eve had done in the Garden, just as the Pharisees had done with the Law of the Sabbath Day. Just as WG and others have claimed the Scribes and the different translations have done.

The truth is not gained by reading the Bible, it is gained by speaking and living the Word. Every word we speak should be filled with that same breath that came out of the mouth of God.

[jlisenbe]

If you tell people about your personal relationship, then it is no longer personal.

Jesus told us about His relationship with His Father, so I guess it was no longer personal? Paul wrote about his personal relationship with the Corinthian church, so was that no longer personal? Paul wrote this to Timothy. "2 To Timothy, my beloved son: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.3 I thank God, whom I serve with a clear conscience the way my forefathers did, as I constantly remember you in my prayers night and day, 4 longing to see you, even as I recall your tears, so that I may be filled with joy." Having made that personal relationship public, was it no longer personal?

Perhaps you mean it would no longer be a PRIVATE relationship. I would sure agree with that.

The truth is not gained by reading the Bible.

Oh? "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth."

I will give you one thing. This idea of yours about "truth" certainly does not come from the Bible.

To you, John 3:16 might mean something totally different than what it means to me. It's not a matter of who's right or who's wrong. When you are willing to add (unconditional love) to God's word, only then does it become a matter of wanting to be right...in manipulating the interpretation of his word. Just as Eve had done in the Garden, just as the Pharisees had done with the Law of the Sabbath Day. Just as WG and others have claimed the Scribes and the different translations have done.

Please show me where I have suggested that "love" in the Bible should be rendered as "unconditional love". That idea came from DW and WG, and not from me, so you're shooting at the wrong target. At any rate, you have already said that you don't get truth from the Bible, so why would you care what the Bible says?

[Wondergirl]

Please show me where I have suggested that "love" in the Bible should be rendered as "unconditional love". That idea came from DW and WG

What's the definition of unconditional love?

[jlisenbe]

I would say it is love with no conditions attached.

[waltero]

Having a "personal relationship" with God doesn't involve telling others about that relationship. It's like having a pastor that can't stop talking about himself and His relationship with his God. It's like having sex and then telling others about it, or taking a selfie after doing the deed.
Having a "personal relationship with God would come out in song. In praise. In word and deed...not trying to explain to others how far your relationship with God has advanced.

I asked if you could interject Unconditional love into the scriptures, where would you place it? You said it belongs in John 3:16.

How does steadfast love differ from unconditional love? I think I'll stick with steadfast love. The prophets of old lived and breathed the word of God...Every breath!

What you fail to realize is; You are nothing. You are just an empty clay jar. You can't explain or convince anybody of anything. It is not you or your understanding of the Scriptures. It's not how you understand the scriptures, it's how you live the scriptures and having the Word of God live in you. In the end (end of all time) there will be no "You." There will only be God and his Word...AKA Jesus...One Word, one God, one Man.

[Wondergirl]

Having a "personal relationship" with God doesn't involve telling others about that relationship.

I agree. It's not telling; instead, it's doing.

[jlisenbe]

Having a "personal relationship with God would come out in song. In praise. In word and deed...not trying to explain to others how far your relationship with God has advanced.

It's a shame you weren't around to tell that to Paul and John.

I asked if you could interject Unconditional love into the scriptures, where would you place it? You said it belongs in John 3:16.

I believe the question was, "Is John 3:16 a love scripture?" It most certainly is. I don't recall being asked about UC love.

How does steadfast love differ from unconditional love? I think I'll stick with steadfast love.

Sounds good to me.

What you fail to realize is; You are nothing. You are just an empty clay jar.

I am a clay jar for sure. I am not empty. Christ is in me as He is in all genuine Christians.

You can't explain or convince anybody of anything. It is not you or your understanding of the Scriptures. It's not how you understand the scriptures, it's how you live the scriptures and having the Word of God live in you.

That's a little tricky. We certainly need the Word living in us, and yet to say we cannot explain anything makes no sense. You are trying to explain something in your post and you do so repeatedly. Much of the NT is an explanation of the Gospel and how we are to live, act, and speak, so I can't agree with that observation despite the fact that I would agree it has some partial truth in it.

In the end (end of all time) there will be no "You." There will only be God and his Word...AKA Jesus...One Word, one God, one Man.

Another statement for which there is no support in the Bible. Even worse, it is flatly contradicted in Rev. 21. "“Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

It's not telling? Really??? Jesus would not agree with that assessment. "What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops." So please explain to me why we would not both speak and live? And if we are not to speak, then why do you two speak regularly on this site?

[Wondergirl]

So please explain to me why we would not both speak and live? And if we are not to speak, then why do you two speak regularly on this site?

First, we do the loving thing. Then, if asked, we tell why.

[jlisenbe]

First, we do the loving thing. Then, if asked, we tell why.

If a person claims to love people, but then neglects to tell them the Gospel, then that person has become decidedly both unloving and disobedient. Read the great commission.

[Wondergirl]

If a person claims to love people, but then neglects to tell them the Gospel, then that person has become decidedly both unloving and disobedient. Read the great commission.

So we do a loving thing, then immediately preach the Gospel?

PREACHING the Gospel reminds me (and very likely the unchurched) of those sidewalk preachers shouting out (with the help of a bullhorn) Bible verses and even threats of hellfire.

[jlisenbe]

So we do a loving thing, then immediately preach the Gospel?

I get your point. It can be situational. I don't share the Gospel with everyone I come in contact with, but I do bear in mind that I cannot do anything more loving than telling someone about Jesus, and to neglect to do so when the opportunity is there is to be unloving in the extreme.

PREACHING the Gospel reminds me (and very likely the unchurched) of those sidewalk preachers shouting out (with the help of a bullhorn) Bible verses and even threats of hellfire.

I'm not a big fan of that type of preaching, but warning people about an upcoming day of judgment is a very significant act of love.

[Wondergirl]

I get your point. It can be situational. I don't share the Gospel with everyone I come in contact with, but I do bear in mind that I cannot do anything more loving than telling someone about Jesus, and to neglect to do so when the opportunity is there is to be unloving in the extreme.

We agree!

I'm not a big fan of that type of preaching, but warning people about an upcoming day of judgment is a very significant act of love.

I'd rave about the glories and joys of heaven rather than threaten with hellfire (and I agree with Athos that the after-death situation may not be at all what we believe now).

(I finally heard from Athos today for the first time -- with the clearest message he could possibly send me.)

[jlisenbe]

We agree

Miracle!!

I'd rave about the glories and joys of heaven rather than threaten with hellfire (and I agree with Athos that the after-death situation may not be at all what we believe now).

I would prefer to see you agree with Jesus.

(I finally heard from Athos today for the first time -- with the clearest message he could possibly send me.)

Pretty sure you didn't.

[Wondergirl]

I would prefer to see you agree with Jesus.

Jesus used words and ideas that people of His time could understand.

Pretty sure you didn't.

It was unmistakable!

[jlisenbe]

Jesus used words and ideas that people of His time could understand.

His words are straightforward and easy to understand. People don't reject them because they cannot understand them. They reject them because they DO understand them and just don't like the meaning.

It was unmistakable!

Have it your way.

[Wondergirl]

His words are straightforward and easy to understand. People don't reject them because they cannot understand them. They reject them because they DO understand them and just don't like the meaning.

Nope. In church on Sunday, ask the person sitting next to you where Gehenna is.

Have it your way.

It was so perfectly done, so beautifully coordinated. I'm still reeling. Just like the first time my son Jeremy reached out to me after he died so unexpectedly, so suddenly.

[jlisenbe]

Anyone can clearly understand the Matthew 25 passage unless she simply doesn’t like it. “Gehenna” is not spoken of in that passage.

[Wondergirl]

Anyone can clearly understand the Matthew 25 passage unless she simply doesn’t like it. “Gehenna” is not spoken of in that passage.

Gehenna — a dark, fiery, evil place of refuse and pain, filled with gnashing of teeth and agony beyond all comprehension.

Jesus referred to it nearly a dozen times in the Gospel accounts, and today, the word is often synonymous with hell, a terrible, vile place that evokes violent images of anguish, unrelenting misery, and destruction.

Matt. 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

[jlisenbe]

As I said, He did not mention Gehenna in the Mt. 25 passage. He gave a graphic description of a day of judgment yet to come. It is a description in harmony with many other NT passages. There is no reason to assign any meaning to it other than a literal one unless, of course, one simply doesn't like what he/she is reading.