[jlisenbe]

I guess that means "no".

[waltero]

What is the Bible's definition of "submission", "submit to her husband"?

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

[Wondergirl]

I guess that means "no".

This Q&A site is here for discussion, not to proselytize.

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Now, please give examples of how a wife is supposed to submit.

And what if the husband cannot be or can no longer be the head?

[jlisenbe]

This Q&A site is here for discussion, not to proselytize.

There is no point in discussing something that you have no intention whatsoever of following. What would be the point?

[Wondergirl]

There is no point in discussing something that you have no intention whatsoever of following. What would be the point?

Follow? I'm required to "follow" whatever you answer? That would be me submitting, I guess. And if I don't follow, I'm destined for hellfire. *sigh*

I asked reasonable questions. How does a wife submit? Examples please.

And what if the husband cannot be or can no longer be the head?

[jlisenbe]

Follow? I'm required to "follow" whatever you answer?

It certainly seems that, in your view, you are under no obligation to follow the commands of the Bible. That being the case, I have no idea why you would want answers to questions. Would it be to argue and dispute?

[waltero]

God has given wives a clear command to submit to their husbands. Like every area of life, the marriage relationship is tainted by the consequences of sin, but Christ is exalted when husbands and wives live according to the pattern that God has provided in His Word.

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.” I think it is fair to say that that is clear. That is clear. And it flies in the face of political correctness. Because it flies in the face of political correctness, it is not uncommon to find Christians who are embarrassed by this statement, who then are defensive and apologetic. And the reason for that is not because it is impossible to understand; it is because it’s virtually impossible to misunderstand—that the verb to submit is a pretty clear verb, translated elsewhere by Paul, of course, as “obey.” Hence, in the order of the marriage service, the question is addressed to the wife, “Do you promise to love, honor, and obey? Will you submit to this man who’s supposed to love you in this particular way?” Now, all of that is founded in the purposes of God.

It just means what it says. Submission is the humble recognition of God’s divine ordering of society. Society cannot function as God established it without the principle of submission being both understood and applied. So, for example, this is not a principle that is unique to marriage. It involves children. Children are to submit to their parents. When you read in the book of Hebrews you realize there that church members are to submit to their church leaders. When you read Romans chapter 13 in the opening verses, we’re told that we as citizens are to submit to our authorities.  And so, too, “wives … to your own husbands.

[Wondergirl]

It certainly seems that, in your view, you are under no obligation to follow the commands of the Bible. That being the case, I have no idea why you would want answers to questions. Would it be to argue and dispute?

Okay. I get it. You don't know the answers to my questions. That's okay. I hope someone else in this thread will respond.

God has given wives a clear command to submit to their husbands. Like every area of life, the marriage relationship is tainted by the consequences of sin, but Christ is exalted when husbands and wives live according to the pattern that God has provided in His Word.

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.” I think it is fair to say that that is clear. That is clear. And it flies in the face of political correctness. Because it flies in the face of political correctness, it is not uncommon to find Christians who are embarrassed by this statement, who then are defensive and apologetic. And the reason for that is not because it is impossible to understand; it is because it’s virtually impossible to misunderstand—that the verb to submit is a pretty clear verb, translated elsewhere by Paul, of course, as “obey.” Hence, in the order of the marriage service, the question is addressed to the wife, “Do you promise to love, honor, and obey? Will you submit to this man who’s supposed to love you in this particular way?” Now, all of that is founded in the purposes of God.

It just means what it says. Submission is the humble recognition of God’s divine ordering of society. Society cannot function as God established it without the principle of submission being both understood and applied. So, for example, this is not a principle that is unique to marriage. It involves children. Children are to submit to their parents. When you read in the book of Hebrews you realize there that church members are to submit to their church leaders. When you read Romans chapter 13 in the opening verses, we’re told that we as citizens are to submit to our authorities. And so, too, “wives … to your own husbands.

I still have no idea what you mean when you use the word "submit". 1) Please give three examples. 2) And what if the husband cannot be or can no longer be the head?

[jlisenbe]

Actually I’m saying that there is no point in explaining these things to someone who already has her mind made up and generally has no real interest in what the Bible says.

[waltero]

Well, the submission that is called for is to be voluntary rather than enforced and is to be joyful rather than begrudging. Voluntary rather than enforced and joyful rather than begrudging.  First of all, that the call is to “submit to your own husbands,” not to everybody’s husband. Secondly, “as to the Lord.” As to the Lord. you’ll remember he (Paul) said, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” When he gets to the issue of children, “Children, obey your parents in the Lord.” When he gets to bondservants and masters: “Obey your earthly masters … as you would Christ … doing the will of God from the heart.” So in other words, the whole issue within the framework of marriage, then, is that the desire of the woman to submit to the Lord is revealed in part in her submission to her husband. That’s what it means, “as to the Lord.” “Part of my responsibility,” says the wife, “to you, Lord Jesus Christ, is to live under your lordship. And because I’m going to live under your lordship, I’m going to submit to this guy.

Not perfect, horribly imperfect in many ways, dumber than a brick in certain areas,” and so on. This is just her own private conversation; she’s not saying this out loud.

[jlisenbe]

Very well said Walter. I would only add that the Ephesians passage begins with an exhortation to submit one to another, probably with the idea that we put the other person’s welfare before our own.

[Wondergirl]

Actually I’m saying that there is no point in explaining these things to someone who already has her mind made up and generally has no real interest in what the Bible says.

What a colossal insult!!! I'm a PK, was a Lutheran school teacher, Sunday school teacher/adult Bible class teacher, AND was born on Martin Luther's birthday (but different year).

Well, the submission that is called for is to be voluntary rather than enforced and is to be joyful rather than begrudging. Voluntary rather than enforced and joyful rather than begrudging. First of all, that the call is to “submit to your own husbands,” not to everybody’s husband. Secondly, “as to the Lord.” As to the Lord. you’ll remember he (Paul) said, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” When he gets to the issue of children, “Children, obey your parents in the Lord.” When he gets to bondservants and masters: “Obey your earthly masters … as you would Christ … doing the will of God from the heart.” So in other words, the whole issue within the framework of marriage, then, is that the desire of the woman to submit to the Lord is revealed in part in her submission to her husband. That’s what it means, “as to the Lord.” “Part of my responsibility,” says the wife, “to you, Lord Jesus Christ, is to live under your lordship. And because I’m going to live under your lordship, I’m going to submit to this guy.

I still want at least three examples. Please.

And what if the husband cannot be or can no longer be the head?

[jlisenbe]

A colossal insult? So you are saying that if the Bible clearly teaches that wives are to submit to their husbands then you will accept that?

if not, then perhaps it was a colossal truth?

[waltero]

Chrysostom was the archbishop of Constantinople, one of the early church fathers. He was the archbishop in the fourth century; he died in 407 AD. And he had his own comments on Ephesians 5. And at one point he made this observation, or he asked this question: “Hast thou seen the measure of obedience?”—referring to the call to the wife to submit to her husband. “Hast thou seen the measure of obedience? Hear also the measure of love. Wouldst thou that thy wife should obey thee as the church doth Christ? Have care thyself for her as Christ for the church.”

I would only add that the Ephesians passage begins with

Noted.

What Paul is saying here is this: that just as Christ has loved the church—so as to give himself up for her, so as to fashion her in such a way that she will appear finally in all of her magnificent glory and splendor—the responsibility of the husband’s love is about that more than anything else.

I still want at least three examples. Please.

Take look at Post 110.

[Wondergirl]

A colossal insult?

Yes, your nasty comment to me.

Take look at Post 110.

There are no examples there except to "submit".

An example is: George asked his wife Susan to bake oatmeal raisin cookies. She baked them that afternoon and thereby submitted to George.

[waltero]

It just means what it says. Submission is the humble recognition of God’s divine ordering of society. Society cannot function as God established it without the principle of submission being both understood and applied. So, for example, this is not a principle that is unique to marriage. It involves children. Children are to submit to their parents. When you read in the book of Hebrews you realize there that church members are to submit to their church leaders. When you read Romans chapter 13 in the opening verses, we’re told that we as citizens are to submit to our authorities.  And so, too, “wives … to your own husbands.

There are no examples there except to "submit".

You are not seeing because you are not believing (possible)?

[jlisenbe]

Nasty comment? No. Just the truth as your non response clearly shows.

[Wondergirl]

Nasty comment? No. Just the truth as your non response clearly shows.

And what does YOUR non response show?

You are not seeing because you are not believing (possible)?

If your Bible class teacher asked you for an example of a wife submitting to her husband, what would you say?

[jlisenbe]

My understanding that long experience has shown that you care more about your liberal views than the views of the Bible.

[Wondergirl]

My understanding that long experience has shown that you care more about your liberal views than the views of the Bible.

You are very wrong.