[talaniman]

Besides one being requested and the other not, please explain the difference and what difference it makes. Even if the voter declines to use the mailed ballots is that a concern for fraud? I don't, but think its the next logical step after years of absentee voting and a logical step to safety amid the covid virus threat. almost 190 thousand dead and we should ignore that, or the 6 million cases and what of those to sick to vote, or quarantined at the last crucial moment?

The right has hollered voter fraud for decades and have yet to produce any of significance, while making laws based on those unfounded fears. I see those objections and actions as just another attempt at targeted voter suppression, like all of a sudden the pressure on the post office and the rolling slowdowns because of sickness and slashing of the means to cover those manpower shortfalls.

[jlisenbe]

If I request a ballot, they will have documentation of my request including my signature, and they will know my address is correct. In other words, they know a registered voter is home. As to COVID deaths, did you read the latest report from the CDC regarding that issue?

[talaniman]

If you're mailed a ballot without a request they still have your information and it's reasonable to assume you're the one getting it, just like meds or checks or BILLS, whether use use it or not.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/opini...ern/index.html

https://www.9news.com/article/news/p...0-956ebd20fa53

Tell us what's the latest CDC says about the virus.

[paraclete]

Virus, are we still talking about yesterday, today the issue is to Trump or not to Trump, that is the question, whether to plumb the depths of dispair, or scale the heights of rhetoric, soring even unto utopia

[jlisenbe]

it's reasonable to assume

The flaw in your thinking.

[jlisenbe]

CDC analysis of Covid data shows that only 6% of deaths were from Covid only. The other 94% were from other health factors which contributed to the deaths.

[paraclete]

CDC analysis of Covid data shows that only 6% of deaths were from Covid only. The other 94% were from other health factors which contributed to the deaths.

yes but without covid those deaths would have not happened when they did. The lesson is the nation, the world, population is unhealthy, full of life style disease

[talaniman]

The flaw in your thinking.

There is always a flaw in human thinking, but you could acknowledge the progress states like Colorado have achieved over the last several years and election cycles and no one was objecting when Senator Cory Gardner was elected under this system and now it's an abomination?

I acknowledge your concerns though with states that have never done this before and have no experience or the support infrastructure and policies and procedures in place to address those issues you have raised. Anything humans do can always be improved on.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe
CDC analysis of Covid data shows that only 6% of deaths were from Covid only. The other 94% were from other health factors which contributed to the deaths.

That's pretty specific, but something we already knew in the general sense of who was more at risk of dying because of the covid infection.

[paraclete]

covid is something we will learn to live with, like the common cold, and what we have to learn is to abandon the fast food culture and be less fat

[jlisenbe]

I think you have completely missed the point. I'm not arguing against mail in voting. I'm asking questions that any reasonable person who has an interest in honest elections should be asking. That you defend mail in voting and yet can't answer those questions is amazing to me. That you don't see that as a problem is even more astonishing.

[Athos]

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

CDC analysis of Covid data shows that only 6% of deaths were from Covid only. The other 94% were from other health factors which contributed to the deaths.

from talaniman;
That's pretty specific, but something we already knew in the general sense of who was more at risk of dying because of the covid infection.


The CDC has lost much of its credibility. Under Redfield, it has become a shill for Trump - which is exactly what Trump wants so he can promote his falsehoods through that agency.

The Center for Science in the Public Interest accused Redfield of having a bad record “and an extreme religious agenda.” Redfield was appointed in 2018.

However, the 6% statistic was NOT the fault of the CDC. The 6% death figure, retweeted by Trump and QANON, has since been deleted. It was incorrect and showed a misunderstanding of how deaths are classified.

The full story can be found here: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

[talaniman]

I think you have completely missed the point. I'm not arguing against mail in voting. I'm asking questions that any reasonable person who has an interest in honest elections should be asking. That you defend mail in voting and yet can't answer those questions is amazing to me. That you don't see that as a problem is even more astonishing.

Perhaps my guiding you to find those answers has been inadequate so let me try that again in keeping with the example we have been using.

https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/main.html?menuheaders=

I see problems as opportunities to resolve issues and not a reason to not take actions that are necessary for better outcomes given particular circumstance. I daresay I have found answers to your questions that satisfy me, even if you are unsatisfied, so no I don't see the problems you ask as being unresolved.

@Athos.

Thanks for clarifying the facts for us as they do make a difference in how we process data. Unfortunately everybody is not as diligent in presenting such facts of which I am guilty of far to much.

[Wondergirl]

CDC analysis of Covid data shows that only 6% of deaths were from Covid only. The other 94% were from other health factors which contributed to the deaths.

Like 'Clete said ("yes but without covid those deaths would have not happened when they did"). For instance, I have a friend who has diabetes. She and her doctor are managing it very nicely. She's scared she'll get Covid and end up dead -- not from the diabetes, but because Covid complicated things and hastened her demise.

[jlisenbe]

Perhaps my guiding you to find those answers has been inadequate so let me try that again in keeping with the example we have been using.

So your guiding amounts to another link that you likely have not read, and one that only concerns Colorado at that? No thanks. If you can't answer the questions, then just admit you don't know. Would be a lot easier.

As to the CDC data, it's interesting that some consider the CDC to be a "shill for Trump", but then proceed to refer to CDC data as though it's completely reliable. Well, you can't have it both ways. At any rate, Trump's portrayal of the data, unsurprisingly, was inaccurate. He stupidly retweets material that anyone on his staff could verify in ten minutes. But the fact remains that the great majority of Covid deaths occur in people with underlying health problems. In other words, an already unhealthy person got the virus and died. So to say that 160,000 people have died of the Covid virus is not entirely accurate. It's on the level of a person with serious cardiac problems having a car wreck and dying, and it getting reported that he/she was "killed by a car wreck". But a healthy person would not have died, so that's the dilemma.

[tomder55]

CDC is stating an obvious irrelevant point . From the earliest reporting it has been clear that people are at worst risk when they suffer contributing factors.Would they have died if they did not get Covid 19 ? . There are often contributing factors in deaths ,most don't get on the death certificate .Cause of death pneumonia . Contributing factor cardio illness etc .

[tomder55]

The problem with the mail in balloting in this cycle is that states that don't have a proper verifiable system in place have rushed sending out ballots . In the case of NJ the dictator decided that ONLY mail in ballots will count and people who go to the polls will have their ballots considered as provisional . Bass ackwards . Assuming we MUST accommodate those who are afraid to go to their polling place ,shouldn't it be on them to REQUEST an absentee ballot ,instead of this willy nillie way, mailing ballots out as if they were just any piece of junk mail ?

[jlisenbe]

The moral of the story seems to be that healthy people are not in any great danger of dying from Covid.

[Wondergirl]

So to say that 160,000 people have died of the Covid virus is not entirely accurate. It's on the level of a person with serious cardiac problems having a car wreck and dying, and it getting reported that he/she was "killed by a car wreck". But a healthy person would not have died, so that's the dilemma.

Nope. He/she WAS killed in a car wreck. Covid goes after weakened body parts and kills people who have COPD, diabetes, heart problems, kidney disease, and more -- and, if you don't have any medical problems, Covid will weaken your body in some way so you'll be much more susceptible to illness..

https://www.eatthis.com/covid-19-cdc...ign=yahoo-feed

[jlisenbe]

Nope. He/she WAS killed in a car wreck.

Nope. He/she DIED in a car wreck. What killed the person? Hard to say. Did the trauma of the wreck induce a heart attack? Quite possible, and that's the whole point. The vast majority of those who have died from Covid had other health issues from the outset. Covid was a contributor, but by no means the only, or even primary, cause of death. Referred to as comorbidity.

I'm just curious about the link you provided. Did anything in it surprise you, or contradict anything that's been said already? Not sure what your point is.

[jlisenbe]

If all of that is not enough, the NY Times, hardly a bastion of Trump supporters, reported recently that the great majority of people testing positive for Covid, perhaps as much as 90%, have so little of the virus that they pose no risk to others and have no real need to quarantine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/h...s-testing.html

https://headlineusa.com/nytimes-vast...ot-contagious/

I realize this is all getting off topic. My apologies. I will redirect myself.