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Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No, it's not. That teaching calls for a voluntary giving of one's resources to help another person.

Hardly voluntary when commanded by God through his prophets.

The idea of the government using one person's money to basically buy the vote of another person is totally foreign.

What an incredibly cynical attitude! Do you or will you refuse Social Security? No, I didn't think so. How about the GI Bill? Child labor laws? Medicare? Medicaid? What does your Bible say about paying taxes? And on and on ........

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 01:59 PM

I am counting EXACTLY what you claimed.

Well, easy enough to find out. And as usual, you are wrong.

"So, here’s the 2018 breakdown of the 995 people shot and killed by the police.
403 were white, 210 were black, 148 were Hispanic, 38 were classified as other, and 199 were classified as unknown.
Out of that 995, 47 were unarmed — 23 were white, 17 were black, 5 were Hispanic, and 2 were unknown."

I believe the figure for 2019 was 9, but still looking for verification on that.

https://www.newsmax.com/bernardkerik.../22/id/899297/

Hardly voluntary when commanded by God through his prophets.

Where did the prophets command the government to collect and distribute money for the poor? Hint: It actually did occur in the OT, but was only for Israel. I just wonder if you know where to find it.

As usual, when confronted with your error, you simply change what you originally posted.

Where?

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 03:28 PM

More of this would help.

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 03:33 PM

Or this. At A Waffle House In La Marque, Texas, This Elderly Man Told The Waitress That His Hands Weren’t Working Too Good. He Was Also On Oxygen And Struggling To Breathe. Without Hesitation, She Took His Plate And Began Cutting His Ham.

talaniman · Jun 8, 2020, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No, it's not. That teaching calls for a voluntary giving of one's resources to help another person. The idea of the government using one person's money to basically buy the vote of another person is totally foreign.

Whose vote is your state buying? Why can't governments have rules and regs based on religious doctrine? Such good works and worthy endeavors are not confined to churches only, just as marriage (for economic purposes, or otherwise) is not the exclusive domain of religion. Many get married at the local courthouses.

If work is available? When unemployment was below 4%, then work was available to anyone who wanted it. For that matter, a person could have gotten two jobs. Of course it's a disincentive for work.

It wasn't below 4% everywhere, and in many regions it was much higher, and the black community was almost twice as high as white unemployment. Even red state governors have sought waivers for it's citizens to use for jobs training instead of work to meet the requirement.

This works too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnXIqmDqzWE

https://journalstar.com/news/local/c...fab072ef1.html

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 03:45 PM

Why can't governments have rules and regs based on religious doctrine?

A liberal dem is asking that question? Can't pray in schools, or post the Ten Commandments. We have gay marriage and abortion, but we can tax because of religious doctrine? Well, I guess so.

I was raised differently, I guess. I never expected anyone else to support me. It never crossed my mind, and I still feel that any man worth his salt will work and take care of his family. Move if you have to. Work two jobs if you have to, but don't expect someone else to pay your bills. And if you work hard and smart, you can actually end up in a good place. Welfare will never do that for you. I don't care what your skin color is. Get off your butt and get busy living.

talaniman · Jun 8, 2020, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

A liberal dem is asking that question? Can't pray in schools, or post the Ten Commandments. We have gay marriage and abortion, but we can tax because of religious doctrine? Well, I guess so.

You can't make others pray with you nor have ANY religious postings, but nobody stops anybody from praying as individuals or groups as long as it doesn't disrupt school functions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School...ligion.%20More

You aren't taxed because of religious doctrine, you are taxed to support the functions of government.

YUP! Leave it to a liberal dem to expose your lies and half truths.

I was raised differently, I guess. I never expected anyone else to support me. It never crossed my mind, and I still feel that any man worth his salt will work and take care of his family. Move if you have to. Work two jobs if you have to, but don't expect someone else to pay your bills. And if you work hard and smart, you can actually end up in a good place. Welfare will never do that for you. I don't care what your skin color is. Get off your butt and get busy living.

Welfare is the helping hand to get you on your feet when life knocks you down. Why do conservatives keep trying to make it seem like it's a sin?

paraclete · Jun 8, 2020, 05:41 PM

Welfare is the helping hand to get you on your feet when life knocks you down. Why do conservatives keep trying to make it seem like it's a sin?

it's not sinful to help out Tal, but when taxes are used for this purpose, conservatives see it as robbery, welfare should be out of surplus not deficit so that is why for centuries it has been the provenance of the Churches who do not tax. In your country gifts to churches and charity are seen as a reduction of personal income and so are tax deductible, but you can't have it both ways unless it is government who are taking over charity, in which case they need to do a far better job

Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

YUP! Leave it to a liberal dem to expose your lies and half truths.

Judas needs to be exposed. It's done very well on this website. Whenever it happens, he comes back foaming at the mouth.

Welfare is the helping hand to get you on your feet when life knocks you down. Why do conservatives keep trying to make it seem like it's a sin?

A simple concept, rooted in Christianity, that conservatives seem to miss.

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 06:08 PM

nobody stops anybody from praying as individuals or groups as long as it doesn't disrupt school functions.

There are many schools where prayer groups are not allowed unless, of course, they are for Muslims.

You aren't taxed because of religious doctrine, you are taxed to support the functions of government. YUP! Leave it to a liberal dem to expose your lies and half truths.

It was your idea. I was just responding to it. Remember???

Welfare is the helping hand to get you on your feet when life knocks you down.

Wishful thinking.

Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

welfare should be out of surplus not deficit

Respectfully disagree, 'clete. Jesus tells a fitting parable on this subject - the widow's mite. She gave from her substance, not her surplus.

A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents. Calling his disciples to himself, he said to them, 'Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury. For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.

Wondergirl · Jun 8, 2020, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

A simple concept, rooted in Christianity, that conservatives seem to miss.

Isn't it the Republicans who insist this is a Christian nation, founded by Christian men, yet don't want any government (tax) money to help those less fortunate among us?

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 06:13 PM

It was not a tax. She gave voluntarily, which is why she was commended.

Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It was not a tax. She gave voluntarily, which is why she was commended.

Amazing how you turn the parable to your own nefarious philosophy.

The point, which you so badly missed, is giving from her substance not her surplus. Your tendency to twist the words of Jesus is noted once more.

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 06:21 PM

And again, "It was not a tax. She gave voluntarily, which is why she was commended." You were using the story to defend taxation which was 100% wrong.

Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And again, "It was not a tax. She gave voluntarily, which is why she was commended." You were using the story to defend taxation which was 100% wrong.

No, I was using the parable the way Jesus intended it. It couldn't be more clear.

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 06:24 PM

It couldn't be more clear.

To you...only. Takes vision.

Athos · Jun 8, 2020, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To you...only. Takes vision.

And to all those thousands down the ages that you love to cite and who understand the parable precisely as I've shown. Give it up Judas, you're drowning.

jlisenbe · Jun 8, 2020, 06:36 PM

The thousands I love to cite, and you know they understand the parable as you do? You've read those "thousands" of commentaries and you know they agree with you? What is your problem? Do you really think anyone believes such nonsense?

Wondergirl · Jun 8, 2020, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To you...only. Takes vision.

Why do you pay taxes? The roads and bridges you help pay for are used by women who've had abortions and by doctors who've performed them. Wonder what "unacceptable people" (according to you) use that public library you support? Or attend your state universities? Or enjoy the public parks in your state? I just can't believe you contribute to their happiness and wellbeing!