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paraclete · Dec 20, 2019, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

You are factually correct but the size of that wage growth as compared to prices is what we are talking about.

From 3rd link

"But despite the strong labor market, wage growth has lagged economists’ expectations*. In fact, despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today’s real average wage (that is, the wage after accounting for inflation) has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And what wage gains there have been have mostly flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers."

*"The average hourly wage paid to a key group of American workers has fallen from last year when accounting for inflation, as an economy that appears strong by several measures continues to fail to create bigger paychecks, the federal government said Tuesday."

ah the fabled paycheck, and every unionist dream of getting a true raise

jlisenbe · Dec 20, 2019, 05:41 AM

Going from 20.25 to 22.65 sounds like higher wages to me. And that article has data that is 18 months old. I wonder what the last 18 months have done to change the picture.

talaniman · Dec 20, 2019, 06:35 AM

When you get it post it and so will I, as well as the corresponding CPI.

Originally Posted by paraclete

ah the fabled paycheck, and every unionist dream of getting a true raise

To not be concerned with rising prices and cost of living is insane and a raise is the honest way to keep up, or have a chance to.

paraclete · Dec 21, 2019, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

When you get it post it and so will I, as well as the corresponding CPI.

To not be concerned with rising prices and cost of living is insane and a raise is the honest way to keep up, or have a chance to.

just more OPM

talaniman · Dec 21, 2019, 06:53 AM

No this is MY money we're talking about of which steadily rising prices has always been an issue.

jlisenbe · Dec 21, 2019, 09:16 AM

Funny how you consider your money to be YOURS, but the money of the wealthy somehow belongs to everyone.

talaniman · Dec 21, 2019, 02:05 PM

Says the guy who is always hollering about HIS money being taken and given to someone else. No beetch about the rich getting it, but don't give it to a poor person! I'll just add that to the more riducules things you say, and I suppose the fuzzy math of hard working rich guys paying too much taxes will follow that allegation.

jlisenbe · Dec 21, 2019, 05:08 PM

Says the guy who is always hollering about HIS money being taken and given to someone else.

You are wrong as usual. My beef is with people who want to brag about their wonderful charity because they are willing to take someone else's money to give to a third party.

No beetch about the rich getting it, but don't give it to a poor person!

I have no problem with people making a lot of money as long as they do it honestly. I object to people like you who want to give away the money of the wealthy but want to hold on to your own.

I'll just add that to the more riducules things you say, and I suppose the fuzzy math of hard working rich guys paying too much taxes will follow that allegation.

Right. The top 20% still pay about 85% of income taxes. Plug that into your fuzzy math.

paraclete · Dec 21, 2019, 05:16 PM

Right. The top 20% still pay about 85% of income taxes. Plug that into your fuzzy math

.

Are we going down this tired old road again, find a new argument? The rich will always pay more they have more, more income, more money, there is a price to success and it is taxation do you honestly think the top 20% should pay only 20%, that would tax the rest into extinction. Ah at last I see your plan

talaniman · Dec 22, 2019, 07:27 AM

JL loves to cherry pick his data as evidence to justify whatever is done he likes. It's not the rich guys fault that the crumbs from a rich guys table isn't enough to keep make the rest of the economy florish as fast as those wealthy folks, Yeah they pay big taxes because they have big money and even BIGGER wealth.

You get crickets though if you ask why Big Biz pays NO taxes though. LOL, you think wages would show any gains at all if states had not stepped in, JL? Rich guys have been raising their own "wages" for decades (RE; FOREVER) no matter what's going on in the world, while you get sent the bill, and NO raise, or so little you get excited about 50 cents.

Yet my math is fuzzy? It's like sailing off the edge of the earth, and explaining how you got back on again when you got back.

paraclete · Dec 22, 2019, 02:50 PM

No Tal you can't win an argument that business should pay more tax

jlisenbe · Dec 22, 2019, 04:15 PM

Are we going down this tired old road again, find a new argument? The rich will always pay more they have more, more income, more money, there is a price to success and it is taxation do you honestly think the top 20% should pay only 20%

Actually they pay 86% percent of the taxes but don't even come close to making 86% of the income, so your reasoning is completely faulty.

JL loves to cherry pick his data as evidence to justify whatever is done he likes. It's not the rich guys fault that the crumbs from a rich guys table isn't enough to keep make the rest of the economy florish as fast as those wealthy folks, Yeah they pay big taxes because they have big money and even BIGGER wealth.

Definition of "cherry picking" data is when someone presents data for which you have no answer whatsoever, and data which completely disproves your ridiculous contention that the wealthy do not pay their fair share.

You get crickets though if you ask why Big Biz pays NO taxes though. LOL, you think wages would show any gains at all if states had not stepped in, JL? Rich guys have been raising their own "wages" for decades (RE; FOREVER) no matter what's going on in the world, while you get sent the bill, and NO raise, or so little you get excited about 50 cents.

"Big Biz" pays no taxes? Really? Where did you get that ridiculous idea? Corporate taxes amounted to over 250 billion dollars last year. I guess that is the fantasy world for liberal dems in which it somehow equates to "NO taxes". LOL.

"you get excited about 50 cents." No one said anything about a 50 cent raise. Your fantasy world is kicking in again.

paraclete · Dec 22, 2019, 06:42 PM

Corporate taxes amounted to over 250 billion dollars last year.

fancy that, a whole 250 billion dollars, what percentage of their net profit was that I wonder?

jlisenbe · Dec 22, 2019, 07:08 PM

A person can argue it is not enough, but to say they pay "nothing" is ridiculous. Besides, corporate profits are taxed when they are passed out as dividends so it all comes out in the wash.

talaniman · Dec 23, 2019, 05:29 AM

No it doesn't and you know it. You act like they have all those lawyers and accountants just to be fair, and would never think up ways to exploit the law for their own profits. Pretty niave of you. At least the dufus admitted he pays as small a tax amount as possible and we know he is a crrook who has all kinds of schemes he uses to make it so.

jlisenbe · Dec 23, 2019, 05:36 AM

At least the dufus admitted he pays as small a tax amount as possible

Just like you.

talaniman · Dec 23, 2019, 06:38 AM

I got no tax lawyers, accountants, or control over the tax law nor the resources or time to exploit it. I am just an ordinary citizen subject to the law. Just like you. I like the way you cherry pick a post and comment and iignore dismiss the rest.

At least the dufus admitted he pays as small a tax amount as possible and we know he is a crook who has all kinds of schemes he uses to make it so.

No he ain't just like me!

jlisenbe · Dec 23, 2019, 06:42 AM

No he ain't just like me!

Of course he is. You both have the same goal which is to pay as little in taxes as possible. You claim he uses illegal schemes and yet you have no evidence of that at all. When I propose a flat tax, which would do away with the opportunities for those armies of lawyers you refer to, you have a fit and nearly pass out because you realize your taxes might go up. You are the typical liberal. You want to raise taxes on everyone but yourself.

I got no tax lawyers, accountants, or control over the tax law nor the resources or time to exploit it.

You have as much control over the tax laws as the wealthy. It's called "voting". One man, one vote.

talaniman · Dec 23, 2019, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Of course he is. You both have the same goal which is to pay as little in taxes as possible. You claim he uses illegal schemes and yet you have no evidence of that at all. When I propose a flat tax, which would do away with the opportunities for those armies of lawyers you refer to, you have a fit and nearly pass out because you realize your taxes might go up. You are the typical liberal. You want to raise taxes on everyone but yourself.

You love to exaggerate my positions and that's not okay, as paying less taxes is hardly a realistic priority in my life simply given my simple income and life style, but I can bet you the dufus also has schemes to hide any evidence of whatever he is doing, IE don't release your tax returns, and don't let certain witnesses testify. You know scrutiny rather than take his word for it or even accept his word he isn't willing to VERIFY. No never passed out over any of your posts but do get mildly amused. Yeah I would raise taxes on everybody even myself and not just pay down the debt but raise people out of poverty, for REAL! That's what liberals think. A simple task of circulating the money better as opposed to leaving it to the rich guys to trickle down.

You have as much control over the tax laws as the wealthy. It's called "voting". One man, one vote.

How naive of you. You don't even know what a congressman senator or president you elect costs now a days. Rich guys do and can afford to pay them whatever they want to get whatever they want at a profit. Vote away that's all you can do, but ordinary folks don't have the money to corrupt your elected official.

Next you'll tell me rich guys don't do that. Don't pass out when you find out the truth! I should have added politicians to that army of lawyers and accountants that rich guys employ to get what they want...MO'MONEY! Not saying all rich guys are nefarious, but the tax law is written so they can be if they want to be, and no doubt the all legally can.

jlisenbe · Dec 23, 2019, 08:38 AM

You love to exaggerate my positions and that's not okay, as paying less taxes is hardly a realistic priority in my life simply given my simple income and life style, but I can bet you the dufus also has schemes to hide any evidence of whatever he is doing, IE don't release your tax returns, and don't let certain witnesses testify. You know scrutiny rather than take his word for it or even accept his word he isn't willing to VERIFY. No never passed out over any of your posts but do get mildly amused. Yeah I would raise taxes on everybody even myself and not just pay down the debt but raise people out of poverty, for REAL! That's what liberals think. A simple task of circulating the money better as opposed to leaving it to the rich guys to trickle down.

I didn't exagerrate your position. Go back and read what you posted. Why should Trump release his tax returns? It's his private business. The IRS has reviewed all of them and found nothing illegal. As for raising people out of poverty, after several decades of the Great Society programs and trilions of dollars spent, we have learned by now, I hope, that you cannot raise people out of poverty. They have to do that themselves.

Next you'll tell me rich guys don't do that. Don't pass out when you find out the truth! I should have added politicians to that army of lawyers and accountants that rich guys employ to get what they want...MO'MONEY! Not saying all rich guys are nefarious, but the tax law is written so they can be if they want to be, and no doubt the all legally can.

Most of the wealthy now are liberal democrats, so your theory does not hold water.