[jlisenbe]

[QUOTE]I could be wrong being a guy, but 10 days after a missed menstral cycle, would have me wondering if I were a sexualy active female.[/QUOT

But again, what happens at the fortieth day that makes the difference?

[talaniman]

You should have an idea if you're pregnant or not right? Be a good time for a gyno visit in my book if you don't know or want to be. Not everyone has those options granted, but that's part of the problem.

[jlisenbe]

What does that have to do with the fortieth day? I'm not following you at all. What happens on the fortieth day that justifies using the term "killed"?

[Wondergirl]

You should have an idea if you're pregnant or not right? Be a good time for a gyno visit in my book if you don't know or want to be. Not everyone has those options granted, but that's part of the problem.

Yup, most of us figure out early on if we're pregnant. And that's why PP exists: to give out birth control and explain how to use it, to educate women about their bodies and possible pregnancies, and to refer them to gynos who can help them with their female concerns.

[talaniman]

What does that have to do with the fortieth day? I'm not following you at all. What happens on the fortieth day that justifies using the term "killed"?

You asked where I draw MY line and that's where it's at! You don't have to follow my logic.

Yup, most of us figure out early on if we're pregnant. And that's why PP exists: to give out birth control and explain how to use it, to educate women about their bodies and possible pregnancies, and to refer them to gynos who can help them with their female concerns.

It's a really valuable option for resourced stress people, not just women.

[jlisenbe]

You asked where I draw MY line and that's where it's at! You don't have to follow my logic.

I would love to follow your logic, or at least try to, but you have not outlined it. You belittled my belief that life begins at conception, but I know why I believe that. I just wonder why you have identified 40 days as a marker.

[talaniman]

Like me you must be for the morning after pill.

[jlisenbe]

I guess that means you don't understand yourself why you chose 40 days. It's sad when we take such a causal attitude towards human life. As I said before, most people who support abortion have not really thought it through.

[talaniman]

I tried to explain in simple terms what the significance of 40 days is, but you don't grasp the easy stuff so see it as a first step in a process to reach a decision. If that's a concept that's beyond you say so.

[jlisenbe]

I tried to explain in simple terms what the significance of 40 days is, but you don't grasp the easy stuff so see it as a first step in a process to reach a decision. If that's a concept that's beyond you say so.

You rambled on about a woman becoming pregnant and seeing her doctor. You did not say what it is about an unborn baby that qualifies the use of the word "kill" at forty days. Sadly, you don't really seem to know what you believe.

[talaniman]

Only to a sick mind can you call suggesting a female see a doctor to confirm and consult with when pregnancy is suspected, rambling. For a hardline religious nut you have no clue about Good Orderly Direction. I don't believe I would send her to YOU and that's for sure.

[jlisenbe]

Only to a sick mind can you call suggesting a female see a doctor to confirm and consult with when pregnancy is suspected, rambling. For a hardline religious nut you have no clue about Good Orderly Direction. I don't believe I would send her to YOU and that's for sure.

Rather than becoming angry and resorting to what you claim to not like which is name calling, you might just want to admit that you don't really know why forty days has any real significance to the unborn child. I find this to be true of most liberals. When pressed to explain why they believe in _____, they really don't know, so since they cannot appeal to reason or truth, they just get mad and start referring to "sick minds" and "hardline religious nuts". If you do figure out what 40 days has to do with the life of the fetus, then get back with us.

[talaniman]

You forgot to use the dumb statement font that you resort to when you got nothing. It's none of your business to begin with since you only care about what YOU believe. It's all good dude, because I've been doing my thing a long time and have no need for your approval or permission or assumptions. You may get away with frustrating others but you lack any capacity to frustrate me let alone piss me off.

Yes I'll be back when it dawns on you what 40 days means in relationship to female physiology. Ask your wife and daughter, or almost any woman and I bet they can relate, even if you cannot. Sad for a supposed learned older fellow, but you came to the right place to learn. Or did you come to throw rocks?

Doesn't matter I can do them both. Back to you.

[jlisenbe]

You forgot to use the dumb statement font that you resort to when you got nothing. It's none of your business to begin with since you only care about what YOU believe. It's all good dude, because I've been doing my thing a long time and have no need for your approval or permission or assumptions. You may get away with frustrating others but you lack any capacity to frustrate me let alone piss me off.

Yes I'll be back when it dawns on you what 40 days means in relationship to female physiology. Ask your wife and daughter, or almost any woman and I bet they can relate, even if you cannot. Sad for a supposed learned older fellow, but you came to the right place to learn. Or did you come to throw rocks?

This is kind of strange. I am simply trying to get you to explain the significance of 40 days for the FETUS, since that is what we are talking about. You said that after 40 days we can use the term "kill" in relation to an abortion. I am simply asking you how you arrived at that conclusion in relationship to the unborn child. You have said absolutely nothing in relation to that. Not one word. You have only discussed a woman's period (roughly 30 days) and then some 10 day window for her to see her doctor and, I presume, arrange for an abortion, and thus you arrived at 40 days. But that says nothing about why it is alright to destroy the unborn child prior to 40 days. That's what I am trying to get you to explain. So far, no luck. You are plainly frustrated and irritated, but that doesn't provide an explanation. Now you can just drop it if you want to, but I would hope, with a human life at stake, you would have thought this through better than you seem to have done.

[Wondergirl]

JL: you might just want to admit that you don't really know why forty days has any real significance to the unborn child.

Tal explained it very well. Please review ALL his comments. Forty days into a pregnancy is ABOUT six weeks (40 divided by 7). Six weeks means the woman has very likely missed one period and suspects she might be pregnant. From bellybelly.com --
"At 6 weeks pregnant, your baby starts to look a little like a jellybean and is about 4-5mm long – the size of a grain of rice! Babies at this age are measured from crown to rump (i.e. head to bottom), so the measurement excludes his or her legs."

Maybe she's unmarried, in high school or college. Maybe she's even younger. Maybe she's married and already has six kids, can't afford another one, and apparently the birth control didn't work. Maybe she was raped by a date who would accept no as an answer or a stranger or an angry ex or her uncle. Now what?

[jlisenbe]

Tal has said nothing about the fetus. You at least directed part of your comments to the fetus. You seem to be saying that the size of the child is the determining factor. Saying it is the size of a grain of rice is inaccurate. More like several grains of rice, which is not huge, but plainly visible. As to the married woman with six kids, would you be OK with killing one of the children? If not, then why is it OK to kill the unborn one? That is the great question in this debate you guys run from. If it is OK to kill a human being, then why do you draw the line at birth? Tal said 40 days. WG can't bring herself to say anything about it. If you would answer that one question honestly, the question of why it is OK to kill the unborn child but not OK to kill a child after birth, that would be a wonderful step forward in this discussion.

BTW, here's your "jellybean" at five weeks. Hands, feet, head, eyes, everything present. Means nothing to you and Tal and that is sad. The second pic below is at ten weeks. Completely legal to be killed at that point for any reason. WG and Tal will, I guess, yawn and go on about their day when it happens, as it does many thousands of times a year.

[talaniman]

While I may be against abortions, I must respect the right of a woman to choose her own direction. I or you or anybody else has NO right to dictate what her choice is. Thank you WG for that timely interjection of common sense, and respect for your fellow woman. I respect your position and passion, JL, but I have made my position clear long ago to YOU, on this and other subjects. We're not likely to change each others minds nor it seems we can insult each other enough. I don't take it personally, because frankly who cares since neither of us has that authority over each other to make any meaningful difference.

Meanwhile that's MY choice how I treat the life of a pregnant female, and her CHOICE, despite the ridicules rant comparing children to unborn fetus's. Like you care for either. They are hardly the only ones dying in this world.

[jlisenbe]

Meanwhile that's MY choice how I treat the life of a pregnant female, and her CHOICE, despite the ridicules rant comparing children to unborn fetus's.

Sadly, the millions of children who never got the chance to live had no choice at all.

despite the ridicules rant comparing children to unborn fetus's. Like you care for either. They are hardly the only ones dying in this world.

No, it's the unborn who are dying. I notice you did not answer my question. It's really the big question in this whole discussion. Why is it alright to kill a baby before it is born but not afterwards? Honestly, when you look at the picture of, at the very least, the 10 week fetus, do you really see something unworthy of protection? If you do, then respectfully, you would seem to have a heart of stone.

[talaniman]

Yeah it is kind of sad I agree, unfortunately abortions and induced miscarriages are part of the history of man going back to the beginning, and few advertised the event. They still don't. All you can cry over are the ones you know about. It's just not realistic to think you will stop it, even as you seek to shut PP down. What's that going to accomplish? It just drives the deed underground and out of your sight. Still it will happen until we get to the point there is no need.

Why is it alright to kill a baby before it is born but not afterwards?

You'll just have to use your common sense on this one, and live with your own conscious like we all do, and obey the law, or maybe step up and commit to taking these babies in your own house, and not pass that responsibility to others who clearly don't want it. I know you won't like my answer, but it is my answer. Chunk your rocks if you want to, but the answer won't change, and I will just chunk the rocks back at you.

Do what you have to do though because I darned sure will.

[waltero]

While I may be against abortions, I must respect the right of a woman to choose her own direction. I or you or anybody else has NO right to dictate what her choice is.

Who left it up to the child to decide... child as in, pregnant teenager. Either way they should be told the truth. Abortion effects more than the one person.