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talaniman · Apr 8, 2019, 07:01 AM

You tell us since all the dems have been messaging health care, and kitchen table issues, and not those social issues that the right wing gets hyped about.

jlisenbe · Apr 8, 2019, 07:06 AM

They all support late term abortions, so now you might want to simply admit you were the one making things up.

talaniman · Apr 8, 2019, 08:24 AM

Show me your evidence.

jlisenbe · Apr 8, 2019, 08:51 AM

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/20...igious-freedom

Wondergirl · Apr 8, 2019, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. Tell me which dem candidate for president does not support late term abortions.

And how about repub candidates and repubs in general? How many have encouraged and even paid for girlfriends' or wives' abortions?

tomder55 · Apr 9, 2019, 09:24 AM

Barr said that Mueller was given the opportunity to review the summary Barr released last month detailing the Mueller's conclusions, and the special counsel declined to do so.https://www.channel3000.com/news/pol...ion/1067229728

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 11:12 AM

How many have encouraged and even paid for girlfriends' or wives' abortions?

1. I don't know. How many of the last round of republican candidates for the nomination can you say for sure either encouraged or paid for an abortion for a wife/girlfriend?
2. That shouldn't bother you since you seem to be fine with abortion.

talaniman · Apr 9, 2019, 12:26 PM

It's none of your business whether women make the choice for abortions and totally irrelevant who is for them or not. The law is cllear on first and second trimester abortions being LEGAL.

Barr said that Mueller was given the opportunity to review the summary Barr released last month detailing the Mueller's conclusions, and the special counsel declined to do so.https://www.channel3000.com/news/pol...ion/1067229728

I watched his rather good sidestep of questions but like he said he made his moves and the congress will make theirs. In other words the 4 step stall is in effect.

Wondergirl · Apr 9, 2019, 01:35 PM

2. That shouldn't bother you since you seem to be fine with abortion.

Not true! Stop making blanket statements.

jlisenbe · Apr 9, 2019, 03:36 PM

It's none of your business whether women make the choice for abortions and totally irrelevant who is for them or not. The law is cllear on first and second trimester abortions being LEGAL.

First of all, the law is most certainly not clear. It varies from state to state. But even if that was true, the law about slavery was crystal clear prior to 1861. Would you have suggested to someone that it was none of their business whether someone owns slaves? Thank goodness the abolitionists did not hold to your philosophy.

Not true! Stop making blanket statements.

I'm just going on your complete refusal to ever take a stand against abortion when it comes up for discussion on this board, such as right now. If you are opposed to abortion, then be opposed to it 24/7. Take a clear stand and oppose it. Otherwise it seems strange to protest the rather obvious conclusions others reach about your position.

talaniman · Apr 9, 2019, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

First of all, the law is most certainly not clear. It varies from state to state. But even if that was true, the law about slavery was crystal clear prior to 1861. Would you have suggested to someone that it was none of their business whether someone owns slaves? Thank goodness the abolitionists did not hold to your philosophy.

Now you conflate abortion to slavery. That's mighty self righteous of you, and rather insulting. Even more insulting is putting your opinions on others in so disgusting a manner. I understand WG's position quite well and respect it even though you don't.

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 05:06 AM

Abortion is the killing of innocent human lives. It doesn't bother you and I get that, but I will oppose it to my dying day. And I'll say it again. I'm glad the abolitionists didn't have a philosophy of not bothering to protest something simply because it is legal.

BTW, WG won't come out and say it very often, but she says she is against abortion, so perhaps you don't know her position well at all.

Wondergirl · Apr 10, 2019, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

BTW, WG won't come out and say it very often, but she says she is against abortion, so perhaps you don't know her position well at all.

You're not a good listener, ummm reader. You still haven't told me who's going to take care of all those babies, especially the disabled and brain-dead and deformed ones.

Republicans and abortion: "Do as I say, not as I do."

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 10:03 AM

You're not a good listener, ummm reader. You still haven't told me who's going to take care of all those babies, especially the disabled and brain-dead and deformed ones.

Republicans and abortion: "Do as I say, not as I do."

OK. Fine. Tell us your position. Are you in favor of abortion or opposed to it? You have said in the past you are opposed, but it's like pulling teeth to get you to actually come forward and take a stand. What is your position??

talaniman · Apr 10, 2019, 10:29 AM

Man are you a pain! She is against it but doesn't get all militantly in the personal business of others and has stated repeatedly all the drawbacks of your types who insist on making law to control the personal choices of others. You have life and BS all mixed up. Even I am against abortions and think there is a better way, but life and people are not always in sync with that notion or evidently yours.

I think you're like a dead beat dad who refuses to take responsibility for creating life. When will you recognize that multiplying is what life does on this planet beyond anything else. You should be passing out pills for the morning after, instead of trying to stop a human from the prime function.

Wondergirl · Apr 10, 2019, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. Fine. Tell us your position. Are you in favor of abortion or opposed to it? You have said in the past you are opposed, but it's like pulling teeth to get you to actually come forward and take a stand. What is your position??

If the pregnant female has talked with her parents (yes, even very young women get abortions), her doctor, her spouse or boyfriend and the pregnancy is in the first trimester, I have no objection to abortion. If the female is pregnant because of rape or incest, I would encourage abortion as soon as possible. If the fetus has been found to be defective in some way, the female, her partner, and the doctor should thoroughly discuss all the ramifications of delivering the baby or aborting it. In general, Christians have no legal and moral right to force their beliefs (in this case, abortion) on anyone else.

Now, JL, please answer MY question.

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 11:33 AM

In general, Christians have no legal and moral right to force their beliefs (in this case, abortion) on anyone else.

1. So ONLY Christians cannot force their beliefs on others, or is that true for everyone?
2. Surely you can see the foolishness of that line of argument. You just got through saying what you believe should happen in various situations, but then say that Christians have no right to force their beliefs on others. But isn't that exactly what you are doing? "Wondergirl believes you should not force your beliefs on others, so WG will force that belief upon you." How convenient for you.

As to your question, who takes care of the children now? And if there are not enough people to take care of them, can we just kill them? Please explain to me the difference between killing the child before birth and killing the child after birth. I also don't understand why it would alright to kill an unborn child with serious physical/mental problems, but not OK to kill the child after he/she is born. Why do you draw that distinction?

Perhaps we would be better served to determine, as a nation, that children are truly valuable, so much so that becoming pregnant, or fathering a child, is a genuinely serious matter, and that every child should be raised in a family with a mother and father. We could further decide that sex is intended for the marriage relationship and is not a recreational activity. I doubt we will do that because that would cause us to actually have to shoulder responsibility, so we will continue to watch movies and television shows that glorify the exact opposite. The answer is actually rather simple, but it inconveniences us, so we reject it. That is the great wickedness of this age.

Would you be OK with abortion in the first trimester on the basis on gender selection?

Wondergirl · Apr 10, 2019, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

1. So ONLY Christians cannot force their beliefs on others, or is that true for everyone?

Do you want Sikhs or Muslims or atheists or PETA or evolutionists to force their beliefs on you?

2. Surely you can see the foolishness of that line of argument. You just got through saying what you believe should happen in various situations, but then say that Christians have no right to force their beliefs on others. But isn't that exactly what you are doing? "Wondergirl believes you should not force your beliefs on others, so WG will force that belief upon you." How convenient for you.

You asked what I believe. I told you. Now you're saying my opinion has become universal truth and I'm forcing my belief on others? I shouldn't have bothered....

As to your question, who takes care of the children now? And if there are not enough people to take care of them, can we just kill them? Please explain to me the difference between killing the child before birth and killing the child after birth. I also don't understand why it would alright to kill an unborn child with serious physical/mental problems, but not OK to kill the child after he/she is born. Why do you draw that distinction?

Again, you refuse to answer my honest question. Females get pregnant with children they can't take care of for whatever reason. Then what?

Perhaps we would be better served to determine, as a nation, that children are truly valuable, so much so that becoming pregnant, or fathering a child, is a genuinely serious matter, and that every child should be raised in a family with a mother and father. We could further decide that sex is intended for the marriage relationship and is not a recreational activity. I doubt we will do that because that would cause us to actually have to shoulder responsibility, so we will continue to watch movies and television shows that glorify the exact opposite. The answer is actually rather simple, but it inconveniences us, so we reject it. That is the great wickedness of this age.

That's why I suggested males be rendered sterile until such time they are willing to marry and have a family they will support. Then, the couple can have their fun without worry.

Would you be OK with abortion in the first trimester on the basis on gender selection?

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

jlisenbe · Apr 10, 2019, 01:26 PM

Again, you refuse to answer my honest question. Females get pregnant with children they can't take care of for whatever reason. Then what?

I did answer it. Who takes care of them now? Would not the same people take care of them? But if it's too much bother, then I suppose we can just kill them. You did not tell me why it would be OK to kill a physically/mentally disabled child a month prior to birth, but not OK a month after. That, after all, seems to be your position. I don't understand it. I would think that if it is wrong after birth, then it would be wrong before birth. That is, in fact, my view on it. Life is sacred.

You asked what I believe. I told you. Now you're saying my opinion has become universal truth and I'm forcing my belief on others? I shouldn't have bothered....

I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. You have a belief that I should not be able to force my belief on others, so you are prepared to insist that I follow your belief. You are doing exactly what you profess to object to.

Are you OK with couple deciding to abort a baby at ten weeks if the baby is female but they want a boy? No other reason that that.

Wondergirl · Apr 10, 2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I did answer it. Who takes care of them now? Would not the same people take care of them? But if it's too much bother, then I suppose we can just kill them. You did not tell me why it would be OK to kill a physically/mentally disabled child a month prior to birth, but not OK a month after. That, after all, seems to be your position. I don't understand it. I would think that if it is wrong after birth, then it would be wrong before birth. That is, in fact, my view on it. Life is sacred.

I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. You have a belief that I should not be able to force my belief on others, so you are prepared to insist that I follow your belief. You are doing exactly what you profess to object to.

Are you OK with couple deciding to abort a baby at ten weeks if the baby is female but they want a boy? No other reason that that.

Apparently I'm going to have to drive to Mississippi and meet with you at the local IHOP or maybe McDonald's so we can hash this out in person. You don't answer my questions, and you claim I don't answer yours. I'll blame the Internet now. Maybe the fault lies elsewhere.