[talaniman]

You think you know what freedom and liberty are yourself? A few bucks more than those lazy welfare people and you think you are free?

[jlisenbe]

You think you know what freedom and liberty are yourself? A few bucks more than those lazy welfare people and you think you are free?

As is usual, you don't know the answer to the question.

[talaniman]

You don't want answers. You ask questions to attack. When you give your opinion you attack.

[jlisenbe]

Says the man who won't/can't answer questions. You feel I am attacking when I ask a question?? Weak response.

[talaniman]

Just an observation of your reaction when you disagree. Very dismissive. Not my fault you don't agree, or don't understand the logic, or math.

[jlisenbe]

You have presented no math. If I understand your logic correctly, it goes like this: Some Americans have a right to the income of other Americans. Therefore, the feds should extract this money in taxes and give it to the deserving Americans.

I don't agree with that logic. Not attacking, just observing. But if a person wants other people to be compelled to help poor people, it says nothing about that person's charitable nature.

[talaniman]

When you are part of a larger group, it seems natural that you support group members until they can support themselves. Is that not part of the value we place on our duly elected government? Nobody makes you do anything except while you blame liberals for this or that, your state government makes the rules and are they not conservatives like yourself?

So are the Prez and the congress so don't blame liberals for not giving you what you want. Oh wait, you can't since you are but a part of a larger group, and not everyone agrees with your way of doing things. Wonder were we do agree, and can find CONSENSUS?

[paraclete]

I'll paraphrase your statement: "We are so free that the government forces everyone to go vote no matter what those people might prefer to do." Wow. What a statement of freedom.

I have yet to decide whether you are an idiot or a rabble rouser but it is obvious logic it is not your strong suite

Except, of course, for the people who voted in favor of the guy who did not get elected.

The guy who did not get elected knows and abides by the rules, so back to my original remarks

So you mean that your country has no constitution, or no written rule of law as to how the country is to be governed?

My country has a constitution one that corrected the mistakes that you had made and which stands with few amendments

How are freedom and liberty different?

Didn't they teach you that in this utopia of good governance of yours?

liberty is differentiated from freedom by using the word "freedom" primarily, if not exclusively, to mean the ability to do as one wills and what one has the power to do; and using the word "liberty" to mean the absence of arbitrary restraints, taking into account the rights of all involved. In this sense, the exercise of liberty is subject to capability and limited by the rights of others

[jlisenbe]

Clete, I'm done with you. When you start advocating for heads to come off, you are way off into the lunatic, asylum fringe. You really should be banned from this board.

[talaniman]

Clete, I'm done with you. When you start advocating for heads to come off, you are way off into the lunatic, asylum fringe. You really should be banned from this board.

See how you attack when you got NOTHING. Anyone else would have understood the figure of speech. So relax and get back to the subject of freedom and liberty. I thought Clete's response was spot on about setting boundaries of good behavior that give equal freedom to all.

[jlisenbe]

I thought Clete's response was spot on about setting boundaries of good behavior that give equal freedom to all.

"liberty is differentiated from freedom by using the word "freedom" primarily, if not exclusively, to mean the ability to do as one wills and what one has the power to do;"

Evidently, the "ability to do as one wills" does not extend to choosing whether one intends to vote. Freedom and liberty are synomyms.

His comment went too far.

[talaniman]

You are not free to holler fire in a crowded theater, so everything probably has boundaries even in what you are free to do. Australia obviously values compulsory voting, and there doesn't seem to be a big movement to change the law, even with the penalty for not voting.

Australia penalty for not voting

Electors who fail to vote at a State election and do not provide a valid and sufficient reason for such failure, will be fined. The penalty for first time offenders is $20, and this increases to $50 if you have previously paid a penalty or been convicted of this offence.

I agree the terms freedom and liberty are interchangeable, even if they are defined by the LAW>

[jlisenbe]

Seems rather strange. I'm not sure how much a coerced vote matters, but I do like Australia. Not too sure how the governance of Australia is better than the U.S. but maybe so.

[talaniman]

I don't think its better or worse, probably just different, and that's cool even if the weather isn't. 8D It's a big freakin' island.

[jlisenbe]

So I hear! Still, they seem to have a certain toughness about them, and that's a good trait.

[paraclete]

I don't think its better or worse, probably just different, and that's cool even if the weather isn't. 8D It's a big freakin' island.

I can testify the weather is cool here too, - 3C to 9C with reports of snow right now so watch out for the disinformation, politically it is freezing with Turncoat Mal about to be knifed. As far as being an island, it has water around it, which is convenient. As to being coerced, the fine doesn't coerce really because we are brought up to do our civic duty, like not littering really. You won't be dragged before a court or imprisoned unless you behave like an idiot