[tomder55]

for 8 years the emperor had the Dept of Justice at his disposal . Why weren't the bank managers frog marched ? You know he would've ordered it if he had a case against them .He was the one who as a community organizer pressured them to make mortgages for people who financially were not eligible for them .

[paraclete]

Yes we get it, Obama reverse engineered the GFC, Social engineering is bad. Banks make financial decisions, investors make financial decisions, but the real evil is being able to hedge the result of your bad financial decisions and keep the result of this risk off your balance sheet. This is not a political decision. This is fraud

I know family members who have been given mortgages that today they wouldn't get because the rules have tightened. These are hard working people who strive to meet their obligations. You are saying they shouldn't have been given the chance. They should be protected from the evil of foreclosure, from the evil of being pressured by banks and finance companies when things go wrong. Whereas I say the bank executives who made bad decisions should be fired and their over stuffed bonuses recovered

[talaniman]

Could YOU keep your house if YOU lost YOUR job? Had your hours cut? It was the bank's plan not the government's that decided to foreclose instead of refinance. It was the bank's that decided to over value their mortgage bundles not the government's. Sure the FEC didn't say a darn thing, nor did state regulators. They whole thing was the banks bankrupted themselves and even now try to rollback the rule that banks have to keep their own reserves so as not to leave taxpayers on the hook again. It was like a Trump casino, borrow to the hilt and declare bankruptcy.

Covering for greedy out of control bankers though and blaming consumers who fell for the variable interest rate and deferred balloon payments scam is par for the course for conservatives, and wingers on the right.

[paraclete]

Tal it is easy to blame the banks, but the problem is deeper, it goes to the heart of what drives the economics, the idea that the shareholders have a greater right than other stakeholders, this is the pillar of the capitalist system and it is wrong. The banks had a free hand because of poor regulation and even poorer regulators. And the corrupt government used the GFC as an excuse to print money and it wasn't the conservatives who were doing it. Don't blame Trump for this, he came long after and he has his own agenda

[talaniman]

You were doing great until you broke it down to blaming conservatives or liberals. Step back and take a larger view and you won't see conservatives or liberals, but old fashion capitalism run amok.

[paraclete]

old fashion capitalism run amok.

So your contention is liberals love capitalism just as much as conservatives. This being so why do liberals (socialists) work to control the sources of production. They do it to control people and to control the money flow so they can spend, spend, spend on their favourite things. Infrastructure good, eh, Tal. If so how come BO didn't spend money on infrastructure. The liberals want everything to be free, education, healthcare, urban transport, abortion but capitalism won't provide these things without someone paying the bill, capitalism bad

[talaniman]

As usual you are misinformed because Obamas infrastructure package(S) were paid for and rejected by the republican congress because it required rich guys to help fund it. His first proposal was in 2009, and he kept proposing a plan every year after that, rejected every time.

$478B Infrastructure Bill Blocked by Senate GOP | The Fiscal Times

And

Governors Join Obama in Infrastructure Spending Plea | The Fiscal Times

So don't tell me about irresponsible spending of liberals and pet projects after conservatives just gave rich guys a huge tax cut that added trillions to the deficit AND no infrastructure plan. The FACTS are out there, so what's your excuse to showing how ill informed you are while you flap your gums?

Don't get mad if I call you on it either! Nothing personal. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it's practiced with discipline through clear structuring process and enough flexibility that allows for adjustments when needed, and is FAIR and practical!

What's wrong with that?

[tomder55]

umm 2009 there was a $825 billion

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act . I remember those shovel ready jobs and the huge road signs thanking

the emperor for filling pot holes .

[paraclete]

As usual you are misinformed because Obamas infrastructure package(S) were paid for and rejected by the republican congress because it required rich guys to help fund it. His first proposal was in 2009, and he kept proposing a plan every year after that, rejected every time.

$478B Infrastructure Bill Blocked by Senate GOP | The Fiscal Times

And

Governors Join Obama in Infrastructure Spending Plea | The Fiscal Times

So don't tell me about irresponsible spending of liberals and pet projects after conservatives just gave rich guys a huge tax cut that added trillions to the deficit AND no infrastructure plan. The FACTS are out there, so what's your excuse to showing how ill informed you are while you flap your gums?

Don't get mad if I call you on it either! Nothing personal. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it's practiced with discipline through clear structuring process and enough flexibility that allows for adjustments when needed, and is FAIR and practical!

What's wrong with that?

You know Tal some people just haven't learned the art of the possible. They go for the big flashy programs that will get votes rather than getting agreement on things that are acceptable to all. You want to hide behind programs that weren't politically acceptable or are payoffs

[talaniman]

umm 2009 there was a $825 billion

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act . I remember those shovel ready jobs and the huge road signs thanking

the emperor for filling pot holes .

Not just potholes. Maybe you should reread the bill and it's provisions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...nt_Act_of_2009

You know Tal some people just haven't learned the art of the possible. They go for the big flashy programs that will get votes rather than getting agreement on things that are acceptable to all. You want to hide behind programs that weren't politically acceptable or are payoffs

Read above post. Something is working pretty well here Clete, despite the stuff you're talking about and a lying, cheating, bullying Dufus at the head and his sycophants protecting him as his goons try to loot the country.

[paraclete]

You need to get past Trump here Tal and come to understand that the Obama/Clinton sycophants are no different. They Had their turn at looting the country. The big problem you seem to have is the speech doesn't translate into action or if it does the action doesn't have the desired outcome.

Once again it is difficult to stay focused on draining the swamp when you are up to your arse in alligators

http://dkdkzone.blogspot.com.au/2013...-your--in.html

[Athos]

There has been a confused mess among the right-wing here in these posts. Two examples:

There is a near unanimous opinion among economists of every stripe that the ARRA was a resounding success. A cursory look at the economic charts with a bit of research will easily prove that. Yet, the right continues to disparage it primarily because Obama gets most of the credit and, God forbid, "socialism" should get credit for anything. Talk about having blinders on!

The Great Recession - The most dismissed and strangest reason for the financial crisis was to blame the homeowners who were bamboozled by the bank loan officers into taking mortgages the banks themselves offered!!!! The blame went as far back as the Community Reinvestment Act - a 40-year-old attempt to get around bank's redlining. No one could explain why the CRA did not cause a Great Recession anytime during the prior 40 years when it was in existence! As usual and even today, elements of the right-wing will do or say anything that is not remotely based in fact.

Continuing - the banks then immediately sold those mortgages to the investment bank crowd on Wall Street. They got their big fees for the sale even tho the mortgages were toxic. The investment banks packaged them into securities and sold them throughout the world.

How do toxic mortgages get sold throughout the world, you may ask. Why, be granting them triple A ratings and creating fancy names like "Collateralized Debt Obligations", CDOs. The investment banks (Goldman Sachs, et al) PAID the rating agencies (D&B, Standard and Poor, et al) huge fees for the triple A ratings. One criminal element dealing with another criminal element. These facts are not disputed! This was the primary cause of the Great Recession.

Lacking this, there would have been no CDOs, no market for toxic loans, no toxic loans themselves, and no recession.

When the Obama Justice Department investigated, the novel defense from the rating agencies was that "opinions" (rating the toxic bonds triple A - the highest rating) are protected by the First Amendment, an incredible defense that should have been challenged.

However, AG Eric Holder bailed and everybody was satisfied with fines. $500 million is a drop in the bucket to these banks, and the real perps, the human crooks, hid behind the corporate veil. They should have had their houses in the Hamptons seized and spent several years in the slammer. Nothing deters like a long prison sentence. Btw, the obscene Street bonuses continued all through the Recession.

Similar financial shenanigans go on today. The banks, once characterized as "too big to fail" are even BIGGER today! The lads in the Harvard MBA program and the like are dying to get to Wall Street so they can get their fingers in the pie. They know nothing will happen if they get caught.

The US system of capitalism modified by sensible regulation (e.g., "socialism") is a good one, but needs better enforcement with stiffer penalties for wrongdoing. Without effective penalties, it's a house of cards waiting to collapse again as it does periodically.

[talaniman]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecol.../#4f92f5d92d83

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.0f08c60e8555

From the beginning

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

And over time

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/b...ll-street.html

Taxpayers made $52 billion on Geithner's bailouts

And

https://money.usnews.com/investing/a...ayers-billions

And this interesting article

Bank bailouts: Why the US made a profit and the UK won’t

I know wingers won't read these links, so holler like you usually do about everything. The truth of the matter, Obama left The Dufus better than Bush left him.

[paraclete]

I know wingers won't read these links, so holler like you usually do about everything. The truth of the matter, Obama left The Dufus better than Bush left him.

It must have been the only time in history the left didn't spend all the money in the treasury, but wait, they did

[talaniman]

If you cannot prove what you say, you are just hollering! Which is exactly what I said you would do.

[Athos]

It must have been the only time in history the left didn't spend all the money in the treasury, but wait, they did

And got every penny back, and then some, all while saving the entire planet from financial disaster.

Of course, you and yours will not read the excellent links provided by Talinman because then you will be forced to admit the effectiveness of "socialism" - the great bugaboo in your fantasy world.

[paraclete]

No Tal it's called pot stirring

And got every penny back, and then some, all while saving the entire planet from financial disaster.

Of course, you and yours will not read the excellent links provided by Talinman because then you will be forced to admit the effectiveness of "socialism" - the great bugaboo in your fantasy world.

You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth

You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth. I thing you should study the outcomes of socialism, Nazi, Fascist, communism. The one things socialists are good at is killing people

[talaniman]

I call it crap stirring because you have no FACTS, so you holler your crap! You better add plenty of sugar in case you have to eat your own crap. Careful though because it might stick to your walls if thrown.

No Tal it's called pot stirring



You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth

You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth. I thing you should study the outcomes of socialism, Nazi, Fascist, communism. The one things socialists are good at is killing people

All examples of thugs, criminal, and dictators. Seems to be much different using the democratic model like in Canada, or parts of Europe.

[paraclete]

All examples of thugs, criminal, and dictators. Seems to be much different using the democratic model like in Canada, or parts of Europe.

In any of this the standout is Canada, but Europe might have emerged from the dark ages, we will see what happens when to germans go down