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paraclete · Mar 6, 2018, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

George was mad . But it was Parliament that imposed the

Townshend Acts of 1767, named after Charles

Townshend ,the Chancellor of the Exchequer who proposed the taxes . Ironically it was a form of tariff because the colonies did not produce their own tea (there were also import duties on

glass, lead, paints, paper

). Well that had the predictable result . The colonist used less of these items and organized boycotts and of course there was smuggling . So Lord North rescinded the provisions except for tea . The

1773 Tea Act was passed, which allowed the East India Company to ship tea directly to the colonies. Then there was the Tea Party led by the Sons of Liberty and one of my favorite Founders ;Samuel Adams ,the cousin of John Adams .

Tom you can't let the facts get in the way of a good story or a little bit of rhetoric

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2018, 02:47 AM

True ,but the myth no longer matches the facts .He was not the one responsible for the policies that lost the American colonies . He in fact decided that it was no longer in the Kingdom's interest to prolong the war .

Washington did not believe that we were revolting against the monarchy . He and his offices toasted the King during meals .

He was one of the most enlightened men in England . His 65,000 books formed the backbone of the British Library . He also established

the Royal Academy of Arts. His interest in agriculture rivaled Jefferson's . His so called madness was a blood condition called porphyria which causes abdominal pain and epileptic like fits .His doctors gave him ' James powder ' which had arsenic in it ,which actually triggers porphyria attacks . Modern scientist believe he suffered bi polar symptoms . But those began to manifest themselves after the American Revolution.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2018, 05:19 AM

Ok Tom, it was the British version of Congress that caused the problem, just goes to show politicians weren't anymore as trust worthy then as they are now

talaniman · Mar 7, 2018, 05:52 AM

Well top economic advisor Gary Cohn resigned yesterday amid all the tariff talks, and that can't help the NAFTA negotiations. I doubt the Canadians or Mexican want to be bullied into a new deal here even with The Dufus dispatching his son in law to help out the talks.

The Dufus is also being sued by his porn star paramour, while Mueller bags another one.

Mueller investigation turns to UAE adviser: NYT

I'm going to need a LOT more popcorn just to get through March.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2018, 06:09 AM

Ah the ineveitable arab

talaniman · Mar 7, 2018, 07:17 AM

They're in it up to their ears.

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2018, 02:07 PM

maybe Mueller will tie Trump in with those murdered Russians in England .

As far as Herr Donald's tariffs .......... he gives middle class tax cuts and then proposes tariffs that will raise consumer costs well above any tax break they receive . Schmuck !!!

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2018, 02:18 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartanntp

paraclete · Mar 8, 2018, 02:39 PM

You know the though just occurred to me, tariffs on steel make guns more expensive

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2018, 03:08 PM

One of Trump's representatives was on the news claiming the aluminum tariff will only raise the cost of beer a penny . We are apparently supposed to believe that the only product aluminum goes into is beer cans . Idiot !!! .

Wondergirl · Mar 8, 2018, 03:55 PM

Good thing Chicago's South Steel Works and Pittsburgh's steel mills are still operating. Oooooops, they're not. Hmmmm....

tomder55 · Mar 8, 2018, 05:15 PM

and you seriously think that slapping Canada with tariffs would make a difference ? The last time someone slapped limited tariffs on steel from China ,more jobs were lost in the county than all the jobs in the steel industry combined . Trump has trade grossly wrong .

Milton Friedman said :

In the international trade area, the language is almost always about how we must export, and what’s really good is an industry that produces exports, and if we buy from abroad and import, that’s bad. But surely that’s upside-down. What we send abroad, we can’t eat, we can’t wear, we can’t use for our houses. The goods and services we send abroad, are goods and services not available to us. On the other hand, the goods and services we import, they provide us with TV sets we can watch, with automobiles we can drive, with all sorts of nice things for us to use.The gain from foreign trade is what we import. What we export is a cost of getting those imports. And the proper objective for a nation as Adam Smith put it, is to arrange things so that we get as large a volume of imports as possible, for as small a volume of exports as possible.This carries over to the terminology we use. When people talk about a favorable balance of trade, what is that term taken to mean? It’s taken to mean that we export more than we import. But from the point of our well-being, that’s an unfavorable balance. That means we’re sending out more goods and getting fewer in. Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance, when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less.

He also said that if a nation is dumping it's products on our market we should consider it a form of foreign aid to the US . I make exception to the argument of national security . But we already use 70% domestic steel in our market . The next 2 biggest imports of steel comes from allies Canada and Mexico. A very small percentage comes from China and other nations . So the national security argument holds no water.

talaniman · Mar 9, 2018, 04:00 AM

Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries, while checking another box for a campaign promise kept. For all the noise we could be at a zero total game.

paraclete · Mar 9, 2018, 02:19 PM

If you exempt the main suppliers and China is 2.7% of the problem, it is difficult to see who, or what, is the real target. I suspect he is just playing to a audience as he did with DACA. Anyway, he has swept other contensous issues off the plate for the moment

tomder55 · Mar 9, 2018, 05:46 PM

I suspect he is just playing to a audience

.

yup and it makes no sense. Just his deregulation moves along with the tax cuts is going to drive up demand for US steel and aluminum. The workers are better off. The captains of the industry that still want to feast on the government teat ;too bad . Compete for your market share !

tomder55 · Mar 9, 2018, 05:53 PM

Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries,

yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.

Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries,

yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.

paraclete · Mar 9, 2018, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.

.

Yes, he has exempted Australia, but we are not a big supplier, only supplying speciality product so that doesn't cut into what he is trying to achieve. Not sure what that is exactly, he wants polluting industries returned to the US and he is contravening existing agreements. That doesn't give surity for entering into FTA's with the US.

Dump's problem is he has no sense of history. He is a marionette

talaniman · Mar 10, 2018, 06:36 AM

He is a DUFUS, and so does dumb stuff! Want to help steelworkers? Increase demand with a huge rebuilding program and use American steel! I mean DUH! The steel industry just got a tax cut like everybody else so did they use it to create jobs? Heck no, they gave the board of directors the money and hollered for MORE! I'm a steelworker and the handwriting has been on the wall for decades. Modern steelmaking processes use bots and techs that can run the computers, not 50 guys to dump the bucket, or swing a hammer.

Dufus claims to be a master builder so build stuff and not just a wall! HMM at least instead of concrete use STEEL! Then you can hook up a generator and electrify the bad boy!

paraclete · Mar 10, 2018, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

He is a DUFUS, and so does dumb stuff! Want to help steelworkers? Increase demand with a huge rebuilding program and use American steel! I mean DUH! The steel industry just got a tax cut like everybody else so did they use it to create jobs? Heck no, they gave the board of directors the money and hollered for MORE! I'm a steelworker and the handwriting has been on the wall for decades. Modern steelmaking processes use bots and techs that can run the computers, not 50 guys to dump the bucket, or swing a hammer.

Dufus claims to be a master builder so build stuff and not just a wall! HMM at least instead of concrete use STEEL! Then you can hook up a generator and electrify the bad boy!

But Tal they didn't give him his wall, it would have used huge amounts of steel, so he has to help his constituents out some other way, and what happened to his infurstructure program, the problem is that obstructionist congress and senate, they just won't get out of the way and let the man work. If they did he could sweep you into trump utopia,a world of pristine golf courses and tall buildings, of new bridges and big walls,

tomder55 · Mar 11, 2018, 02:43 AM

The steel industry will NEVER be the employer it once was . Automation took care of that ,not a declining market share . Government subsidy just delays the inevitable . IF the steel industry is so critical to national security as herr Donald claims ,then the defense industry should take over United Steel .

But his argument is nonsense as well as yours is Tal. If you want to build infrastructure and foreign steel is in fact cheaper then why would you expect the taxpayer to pay top price for the steel used to build the infrastructure ? The tie up in Congress is funding . Typical politicians ;they pass tax relief and immediately search for ways to increase taxes . We know how this plays out . They want to increase gas taxes to pay for infrastructure . But they can't answer where all the money in the Highway Trust fund has gone. You do know that without adding a dime to existing spending that the Highway Trust fund will be insolvent by 2021 ? 2016 our lawmakers transferred $70 billion from general revenue to the fund .

Over the next decade, spending will exceed revenue and reserves by $139 billion....before any increase in spending is made . It is estimated that they would need to increase the national gas tax by 10 cents/gallon just to fund existing spending (it is already at

18.4-cent

/gal).If that was the only excise on gas then maybe you could make the case for increasing the tax . But every taxing authority wants to wet their beak in that trough . Here is NY a

20 gallon fill-up, costs $13.80 in taxes.(Federal ,State ,Local,Motor Fuel excise ,Petroleum Business tax ,

state fund dedicated to petroleum-spill cleanup and to a fund for the state’s fuel testing program. And the real irony of it is that taxing is a disincentive for using it . With that and fuel efficiencies there is less of a demand for gasoline . So all their calculations are way off. That is why taxing authorities are looking for more creative user fees like increase use of EZ Pass tolling .Here bridges that used to be free to drive over suddenly have EZ Pass and license scanners . In NYC Sandinista Bill wants to have so called " congestion tolls " in down town NYC . It's a big rabbit hole. A real audit of funding spending would find criminal racketeering in the inefficiency.