[smoothy]

Didn't work too well for France with Germany... being nice and not being strong... cost US a lot of lives as a result.

Clinton ran out of the country and badmouthed our country. Obama didn't go at all, and badmouthed our country... John Kerry blew someone to get out of his tour of duty after only 4 months... and badmouthed the country, THey didn't even want Joe Biden for medical reasons.....now we know it was for a mental deficiency.

Obama certainly didn't "WIN" anything in the 6.5 years he's been in office... and had more US soldiers killed than that 10 yers you walked about.

And he's going to surrender, rather than win. HUGE difference...

[Wondergirl]

Iraq was won . You're guy lost the post-war .

Iraq is in worse shape than when Saddam ruled. And we certainly didn't win hearts and minds OR inspire democracy.

[smoothy]

Iraq is in worse shape than when Saddam ruled. And we certainly didn't win hearts and minds OR inspire democracy.

We can thank Obama for that.

[Wondergirl]

And he's going to surrender, rather than win. HUGE difference...

There's nothing to "win."

[smoothy]

There's nothing to "win."

There is everything to win... just like there is everything to lose. That Yin and Yang thing.

[Wondergirl]

We can thank Obama for that.

We can thank Bush for setting us up and taking us into an unnecessary war.

[Wondergirl]

There is everything to win... just like there is everything to lose. That Yin and Yang thing.

Name something.

[smoothy]

We can thank Bush for setting us up and taking us into an unnecessary war.

Really... you bought that democrat ppropaganda hook line and sinker?

If W Bush is responsible for that... then Obama is responsible for that mess in Korea that has Millions of troops involved, and not just ours.

Couldn't possibly be that pesky thing called Cease fire agreements... the Democrat narrative is those don't exist, so they can't be violated.

Never mind the fact I was involved in what was happening over there at the time (since before Desert Shield ever started) and saw a lot of the Cease fire agreement communications, those were highly classified communications at the time and weren't made for public consumption....or part of the public record so there was no propaganda value involved in them.... I didn't leave there to come back to the USA until we were well into the cease fire.

[tomder55]

David Frum mocks the strawman the emperor and you use.
Option A: Do nothing
Option B: Global thermonuclear war
Option C: Preferred State Department policy

If the emperor was leading us in WWII he'd say
“Some say that our forces should never land on any beaches at all. Others would have us invade every beach on earth. I reject both extremes”.

If Obama had met his stated goals in Afghanistan … if the Russia “reset” had worked … if Iran talks were indeed producing nuclear disarmament … if the president's “red line” in Syria was not being crossed and recrossed like center-ice in an exciting hockey game … if his Libyan intervention had not resulted in Libya becoming a more violent and unstable place … if his administration had sustained the progress toward peace in Iraq achieved during George W. Bush’s second term—if all this had been the case, the president would have been content to simply present his impressive record. But it is not the case.
Obama’s core defense of his record is this:

[B]y most measures, America has rarely been stronger relative to the rest of the world. Those who argue otherwise—who suggest that America is in decline, or has seen its global leadership slip away—are either misreading history or engaged in partisan politics. Think about it. Our military has no peer. The odds of a direct threat against us by any nation are low, and do not come close to the dangers we faced during the Cold War.

Here, Obama is offering not a false alternative but a false claim. In 2014, China will overtake the United States as the world’s largest economy, as measured in terms of purchasing power parity. Measured in nominal currency terms, the overtaking may be postponed until the 2020s. However measured, the economic primacy the U.S. has maintained since the 1890s is rapidly nearing its end. Rarely stronger relative to the rest of the world? No.
Notice too the slippery, multi-conditional form of the president's boast about national security. “The odds of a direct threat against us by any nation are low.” That statement reveals the imprint of editing by aides who understand that indirect threats (such as the implosion of Western-oriented Arab regimes since 2010), threats against allies (such as the Russian threat to the Baltic republics or the Iranian threat to Israel), and threats by subnational actors (including all those al-Qaeda affiliates that attacked the U.S. compound in Benghazi, Libya) are all worse today than they were when the president took office.....

At West Point, Obama opened his discussion of Iran by claiming credit for the sanctions regime against Tehran. “[A]t the beginning of my presidency, we built a coalition that imposed sanctions on the Iranian economy,” he said. Yet the most effective of those sanctions—the Kirk-Menendez measures that isolated Iran from the international-payments system—were strenuously opposed by this president. He signed them into law only after the Senate attached them to the 2012 defense-authorization bill by a vote of 100-0.

Obama at West Point: A Foreign Policy of False Choices - David Frum - The Atlantic

[tomder55]

And we certainly didn't win hearts and minds OR inspire democracy.

They have held a number of successful elections since the fall of Saddam ;and the people brave threats by terrorist that would have Americans quaking in their homes to publicly go out to the polls and proudly wave their purple dyed fingers as proof that they voted ,defying those threats .

[Wondergirl]

Really... you bought that democrat ppropaganda hook line and sinker?

I was a true Republican back then when I watched Powell deliver his schtick and also Bush talk about WMD and our responsibility to improve the lives of the Iraqi people. How gullible we all were!

[smoothy]

I was a true Republican back then when I watched Powell deliver his schtick and also Bush talk about WMD and our responsibility to improve the lives of the Iraqi people. How gullible we all were!

THose WMDs WERE found... and documented...

Your first mistake was believeing anything you saw on CNN.

I saw much of what was has going on day to day... I also saw what got reported by CNN... they rarely matched on very much... CNN was never a Republican propaganda outlet.

[talaniman]

Our time in Iraq is over and you neocons need to get over it. Businessmen can afford their own Army.

[Wondergirl]

THose WMDs WERE found... and documented...

When was that?

Your first mistake was believeing anything you saw on CNN.

People dressed up as Powell and Bush to make those presentations? I don't remember what channel it was on, but they were supposedly the real Powell and Bush talking, Powell with his pointer and maps. (I don't watch CNN.)

[smoothy]

When was that?

People dressed up as Powell and Bush to make those presentations? I don't remember what channel it was on, but they were supposedly the real Powell and Bush talking, Powell with his pointer and maps. (I don't watch CNN.)

Been a number of them documented over the years... it didn't happen all at once, but it conflicted with the liberal medias narrative so they were "omitted" and pretended they never happened.

CNN were the point people who had reporters who embedded wth the troops... everyone else got everything from them. That's how it worked during the Gulf war (Desert Shield and Desert Storm) They HAD to share everything with the rest. . Everything was thus tainted by their bias.

[Wondergirl]

I'm talking about the presentations by Bush and Powell, not about networks or the liberal media or Desert Storm. "We can't wait for the inspectors to finish."

[smoothy]

Understand what a cease fire violation is? Understand what the consequences of cease fire agreements are? Particularly if they are flagrant and frequent?

[tomder55]

"We can't wait for the inspectors to finish."

We have been waiting for the inspectors to finish in Iran for years. They have advanced so far that it is a fait accompli that Iran will have nukes.

[speechlesstx]

Speaking of Iran, Lurch says Ukraine, Syria, and Iran are some of the emperor's foreign policy successes that he just doesn't give himself enough credit for.

[Wondergirl]

Speaking of Iran, Lurch says Ukraine, Syria, and Iran are some of the emperor's foreigan policy successes that he just doesn't give himself enough credit for.

We're not at war so far, despite what Cheney and McCain want.